Spring 1905
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From - Tue Oct 30 17:59:53 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Turkey in 'gutsy':
> Well, my estimates were based only on the information I had
> available to me, and were shifted in an attempt to influence the
> game. By writing you off, I actually increased your odds of
> survival. ;^}
Yeah, I was certainly hoping to increase my chances
slightly with my message too.
> Certainly the "standard" Eastern opening, but I would think that
> should be influenced by the negotiations, and unless Keith did a
> MUCH better job with you and Raine than he did with me, he
> should have been first to go in the East.
Thing is, Raine had got the idea into his head that
we were eliminating you. I suggested that to him in
like the first message and all he could talk about
after that was exactly how, where I saw the attack
going etc. I should have figured him for the single-minded
player he is but I wasn't sharp enough.
> In my opinion, you should have accepted the apology I made,
> and the apology implicit in my F1901 Moves, and not built
> F Sev. We'd both be better off right now. (At least I would
> be. 8-)
Yeah, possibly. Certainly trusting Raine would see the
sense in attacking Austria was a mistake. I'm still
arguing with him over whether it was his mistake or
mine, but I seem to be the one paying for it so I
guess that's the main thing.
Adam..............
From - Tue Oct 30 18:00:06 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
> The problem is that Keith has difficulties to attack Keith.
Hummm. Steve would have difficultes attacking Keith?
Keith would have difficulties attacking Steve?
> If FG keeps
> solid they'll face the problem that Rod gains nothing while Steve can
> pick up Norway and Stp.
Obviously he may do that, there's not much I could do to stop
him right now, but he's still maintaining that he'll support
me into Norway this year. He may be telling the truth, it's
clear that his units are headed south rather than east.
> Feel free to ask Keith's help. I cannot give you anything else than my
> neutrality. I cannot support you against Keith from Bulgarian south coast.
You could take, for example (I feel like a broken record) Gre and
let me take Bul back perhaps? There are always options beyond
direct cooperation.
> if you just dispand your fleet in Black Sea.
As I'm sure you noticed, I have done this.
> Think of it from my point of view. I can then move Aeg-Ion
> and go to take what Rod has to give me (hard times :-) We
> can keep our border quite by having your
> fleet in Ankara and my army in Con. I have no future if I try to take a
> center from you now. I need all my forces in west and you know that.
Well, we'll have to leave it like that for a while now
I guess, but I can't promise anything at all long term
down there. I was prepared for you to have one of Bul
and Con, you've taken both. I will take one back at
some point.
> The question is, will Keith help you? If he will then I am history. Then I
> am the first to admit that I made a mistake, I was wrong, you were right.
Possibly not, he wanted F Bla to stay and A Ukr to go. I didn't
think I could do that. We'll see. I think Keith may find himself
busy fighting Steve in no time anyway.
> I can offer you my neutrality. I know I am not offering much. On the
> other hand I am not asking much eiter. I want your neutrality.
I have little choice at the moment.
> Disbanding a southern fleet would be a good start. You know that I am not
> a threat to you. I cannot move any further east or I am in big troubles in
> west (you are right, I am already :-) So it is up to you how we shall
> continue. I see the irony :-) but it is true that my future is partly in
> your hands.
You may concentrate on Rod for now. Good luck.
Adam..............
From - Tue Oct 30 18:00:08 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
> We need to find the best way to disentangle ourselves from each other.
> It can be tricky since there are so many supply centers so close to each
> other.
Agreed, untangling is the key but it is very hard. I didn't
feel I could risk leaving Ukr open so I had to disband
F Bla which obviosuly makes things even more difficult.
I guess I could leave Rumania as yours, but I'd have
to get Con at least to make up for that loss. If you
supported yourself into Bul this spring then you could
support my F Ank into Con in the fall. It would speed
Italy's demize but strenghten both of us.
> You think he will support you to Norway?
Not sure. This is what he says he will do.
> Then this will mean that he
> will attack France soon, or do you think he will just
> sit and wait for now?
I've told you a few times what he has told me he intends
to do, and his units are moving in that direction too.
He tells me that he's planning to attack Austria.
> So, is it out of the question to let me keep Rumania?
I need supply centers, Rumania seems like an obvious one.
If you can suggest others which would work instead then
I'd be happy to try them but I can't see how I can
safely get to any others, even with full cooperation
from you.
> Or, you want me to attack Bulgaria, and you're willing to
> put a fleet into Rumania? I'm not sure what you mean.
I meant that I would put a fleet in Rumania, as you had
explained you desired last year. Unfortunately that's
going to be impossible now, at least in the short
term until I can build another fleet.
> Gal is a very sensitive area for me because it borders two of my home
> supply centers. If I don't have an army in Rum, then Gal is no threat to
> you (your biggest worry is that I move into Ukr).
It ties up almost all my units to keep it covered. I have to
cover War, of cousre, and Ukr while you have an army in Gal.
If we were both out of Gal we'd both be a lot better of.
> I don't want to move
> Gal if you are going to move there to cut its support, for instance.
Indeed, that wouldn't be DMZing at all for sure.
> We need to come up with some compromises, I think. I see that you can
> take Rum by force unless I build in Budapest.
Not anymore. I would have had to disband F StP to get that to
work. Hopefully Germany will keep his word and support me
into Norway - I had to keep StP in case that's the case.
> I think I'd prefer to build in Vienna.
It seems more sensible with Steve on the way.
> I don't think we should each waste four of our units
> just to contest a single supply center (Rum). What do you think?
I agree, but the only way I can see us working together is
if you can take Bul while I retake Rum. You have said you're
not happy with an army in Rum, and it's almost impossible
to get my one southern fleet to the center without losing
Ank to Raine. Once Bul is yours and Con is mine, it
would be much simpler. Can you stand an army in Rum
for that long?
Adam...............
From - Tue Oct 30 18:00:10 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Germany in 'gutsy':
> Right now, I favor a strong Italy and Russia above a strong
> France and Austria. That's where I'm at.
Then we have a great deal in common. I'd be happy to see
Italy lose a few SC's but other than that we're in agreement.
Is there any way we can work together in Austria this
year? I can take Gal in the spring if you cut Vie's
support, but where we'd go from there I'm not sure.
Obviously I'd like to reclaim Rumania but Ideally
I'd do that with Austrian cooperation: He takes
Bul to make up and we can share Turkey too. I'm
fairly sure I won't get that and fighting Austria
is my only real option. Have any plans that get
me a red dot as well as Norway and more red dots
for you?
Adam..............
From - Tue Oct 30 18:00:18 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
I'd like to keep Burgundy a DMZ for a while yet if you're up for it. I'd
also like to bring Edi back to Belgium; I think that gives us a good, stable
border. I'll move A Bel towards the eastern front as long as you move your
fleets away too. We talked about this before, but I just wanted to confirm.
Regarding this year's moves, I need to see if either A or I will break and
ask for my help before I commit, but I don't think I could do too much wrong
with either Tyr or Mun. As long as I can help Adam to take either Gal or
Rum, I'm willing to risk a "The German Army in Tyrolia with no valid
retreats was destroyed." I don't think that will happen, though, and I'm
pleased to hear you would accept a retreat to Pie. Thanks.
The next question I have is "What's Paris up to?" I don't want you to
compromise your defensive position in any way, but there might be some value
in convoying Par to NAf in the fall. Would you feel comfortable with that?
Write when you can. Thanks.
- Steve
From - Tue Oct 30 18:00:22 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
> I'd also like to bring Edi back to Belgium
Sounds good. I think trading Bel for Edi is a good idea.
> I'll move A Bel towards the eastern front as long as you move your
> fleets away too.
Is it sufficient that I stay out of Eng?
> I'd like to keep Burgundy a DMZ for a while yet if you're up for it.
OK. Normally I'd prefer to be in Bur while you have armies in Mun and Bel, but as
long as your armies are consistently working their way east I have no problem with
maintaining the DMZ.
> As long as I can help Adam to take either Gal or
> Rum, I'm willing to risk a "The German Army in Tyrolia with no valid
> retreats was destroyed."
I doubt the army will be popped. It would require a very specific set of moves from
AI.
> I'm pleased to hear you would accept a retreat to Pie.
We need an army in Pie, and though it would be best for you to remain in Tyl while
I advance to Pie, that seems unlikely. If you're dislodged from Tyl, the next best
place to be is Pie (or Boh, but I'm assuming you'll order Mun-Boh).
> there might be some value in convoying Par to NAf in the fall.
My initial thought is that a fleet in NAf is more useful than an army. I'm leaning
toward MAO-NAf, Mar-Lyo, Gas-Mar, Par H, but I'm open to suggestions.
Rod
From - Tue Oct 30 18:00:23 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia in
'gutsy':
Adam,
Nice broadcast! ;-)
I think it would be wise to order Ank-Con, in case Con-Smy, Bul/Aeg-Con (which
threatens Ank).
Steve says he's going to help you in the east, so hopefully things will go well for
you. You could force Gal with Tyl-Vie, Sev-Rum, War S Ukr-Gal, though there's a risk
of Rum-Ukr. Personally I think it's worth the risk: the benefit is great, and an
Austrian army in Ukr, though a crisis, should be manageable. A "safe" option is
Sev-Rum, War-Gal, with Ukr supporting either, but it's less likely to accomplish
anything.
Rod
From - Tue Oct 30 20:20:46 2001
Broadcast message from rkyonkoski at att.net as Master in 'gutsy':
>(Keep in mind, though, that lack of strategic vision
>is the biggest difference between Roger's JDPR and
>mine. 8-)
Oh come on now. I have no strategic vision. People just can't help but
like me and they hand me all my victories. I never had to stab a sole.
:-)
Sorry for being so late on responding to blatant attacks on my character
(like implying that I have strateic vision), but I did not down load
these messages last night.
This is as good a time as any for people to think about how the fact
that this game was nongunboat may have affected how they approached the
game and how others may have approached it. Can everyone comment how
they think this impacted the initial portions of the game (in your next
private message to me). I will ask the same question during End of Game
statements.
Roger
From - Tue Oct 30 22:21:37 2001
Broadcast message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France in
'gutsy':
> I never had to stab a sole.
Well, just be sure to get a tetanus shot if you ever do.
;-)
From - Tue Oct 30 22:21:38 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Master in
'gutsy':
> This is as good a time as any for people to think about how the fact
> that this game was nongunboat may have affected how they approached the
> game and how others may have approached it. Can everyone comment how
> they think this impacted the initial portions of the game (in your next
> private message to me). I will ask the same question during End of Game
> statements.
I think knowing the identity of the players had little impact on the
game. Those who had played with some of the others previously might
have a slight initial advantage, but that's about it. Despite the
brouhaha about who has the "highest" rating, I think good players are
mature enough to just play the game.
Rod
From - Tue Oct 30 22:31:56 2001
Broadcast message from rkyonkoski at att.net as Master in 'gutsy':
>> I never had to stab a sole.
>Well, just be sure to get a tetanus shot if you ever do.
You realize that I was referring to Achilles! :-)
Tough crowd.
:-)
Roger
From - Tue Oct 30 22:40:09 2001
Broadcast message from Elladan915 at netzero.net as Turkey in 'gutsy':
> Broadcast message from rkyonkoski at att.net as Master in 'gutsy':
>
> >> I never had to stab a sole.
>
> >Well, just be sure to get a tetanus shot if you ever do.
>
> You realize that I was referring to Achilles! :-)
>
> Tough crowd. :-)
I figured it was some sort of reference to your lack of fishing skill...
*shrug* ;^} (Raine is almost certainly, completely lost by now...)
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:01 2001
Broadcast message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy in 'gutsy':
> > >> I never had to stab a sole.
> >
> > >Well, just be sure to get a tetanus shot if you ever do.
> >
> > You realize that I was referring to Achilles! :-)
> >
> > Tough crowd. :-)
>
> I figured it was some sort of reference to your lack of fishing skill...
> *shrug* ;^} (Raine is almost certainly, completely lost by now...)
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Eric, please! The fishing part got me lost... Let me think about it....
...I got your point ;-)
This means a fleet attack against me, right :-)
Raine almost like Rambo: ' I will dead you all ' (with my
communication skills :-)
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Ps. Wasn't it the heel that was the vulnerable part of Achilles? I thought
sole was the bottom of ones foot...
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:03 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hi, I think you can expect that both Italy and I would support you in an
attack on France. I suspect that Italy won't mind if you are in
Piedmont, as long as you don't stay too long. With your being in Tyrolia
now, it is safe to say that you will be able to move to Piedmont
unimpeded.
This said, I think I would like to make sure that you leave Tryolia, one
way or another. If you are moving to Piedmont anyway, I suppose that you
would not mind if I were to dislodge you? I certainly would not plan to
attack you with the army that would move to Tyrolia. I am sure that
France would request it, but I am immune to France's influence.
As for Russia, I have a bit of flexibility now that he disbanded his
fleet in the Black Sea. I presume that you will be able to make enough
quick gain from France (Belgium at least) and Norway such that you could
build and not have to worry what Russia decides to do. I am not strong
enough yet to brin Russia to his knees alone, but if you and Italy move
against France, I can be formidable enough that Russia should not be able
to cause you too many problems.
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:05 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
I am not sure yet that I want to attack Italy. I am thinking that he
will be occupied by France, and that he won't be able to cause too much
trouble in the East.
Now, if Germany moves against you, which I expect, despite Germany's
hints that he might do something else, then perhaps we could work
together against him. Germany denies telling you that he plans to attack
me, so one of us is being deceived.
Do you still feel threatened by Italy, or is it just that you see the
Italian centers as your best opportunity right now?
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:08 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Any news? Germany is hinting that he might like to attack France, but I
would suspect that he would want to go after Russia first. After all,
France is not going to gain any supply centers right away, and the French
units will only have to move further away from Germany, making it easier
for Germany to stab. What do you think?
Given that you built an army, one of us will need to move a fleet to the
Ionian Sea. I suspect that you would not want me there, but if that is
your preference, I can do it.
It should be easy for you to get Ankara soon. You could be assured of
getting it this year, but you would need to use three units (Con-Smy,
Bul-Con, Aeg S Bul-Con) in the Spring, and two in the Fall (Smy-Ank, Con
S Smy-Ank).
I think we should make sure we dislodge Germany from Tyrolia, despite his
claims he wants to move to Piedmont, what do you think? He can't do
anything with it now, but once France moves an army to Mar and then Pie,
Germany's presence in Tyrolia could be troublesome. I should move either
Vie or Tri to Tyr supported by the other two units.
I am not sure yet what moves to make against Russia. It is not going to
be easy to get into Sev or War without help.
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:09 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
> I don't think I will be able to get Munich. Germany will still have his
> A Kie and A Mun (he will build an army I think), so I'd have to move to
> Sil as well, or get Russia to help.
I believe Russia is willing to help you. He did remove fleet in Black Sea
like you wanted. For some reason he claims that you wanted him to remove
army in Ukraine. Did you suggest Ukr and Bla?
> Exchange Tunis for Greece? That would be strange. I don't think we'll
> get the chance. Don't you think France is going to move Mid-Naf and
> build F Mar? What has France been telling you?
Like you said we I need 3 fleets against France. It is 3 if there is 2
Italian and one Austrian fleet. If we had the chance we could exhcange
Tunis to you and Greece to me if you will. France has been telling very
little of his moves. I believe he'll move excatly like you said. I know
that Tunis is hard to get to you but if there comes a chance I am willing
to give it to you.
> No, it is a legitimate concern. Germany just mentioned to me that he
> could see either AFG or AGI. I've told him that I could not do AFG
> because you and Russia would crush me in the middle. Plus, how could
> Germany attack France if his armies were on the Russian front?
Germany can also see GRI. He is offering Nwy to Adam. Let's see if this is
true. Our common problem is that Russia is a friend to both Germany and
France. GF both have a motive to keep Russia strong. That should unite us.
Russia keeps telling me that Steve is more afraid of Austria than Russia.
Do you know Steve personally? I mean, I have the feeling that you know
just due to Russian talks. Maybe you have played in same games or
something. Anyway Russia have been honest with me for a long time. I do
believe that his story is true. I don't know if Germany is telling the
truth to Russia though.
I got a message from you. I'll send this and reply to your new mail.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:11 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Master in 'gutsy':
Regarding the question of whether public knowledge of the JDPR ratings
had an influence on this game so far.
I don't think so. At the very start, Russia and/or Italy mentioned that
we should all attack Turkey because he had the highest rating. I think
that even though this was explictly mentioned in the press, the ratings
did not not really affect people's thinking all that much. As evidence,
Russia mentioned that he was actually thinking that Turkey would make the
best ally, and that he only decided to attack Turkey after Turkey had
moved against him.
I certainly encouraged Turkey to attack Russia, though I am not sure why
he actually did it. Turkey was not very comminicative with me, and we
never got along very well. I don't know if Italy had convinced Turkey
that he would attack me (Austria), or what. Italy did move to Tyrolia,
after all.
After Italy's move, I could not consider working with Turkey against
Russia, and I told Turkey that I could not attack Russia. From this
point I nevery really communicated with Turkey at all, and Russia and
Italy and I all decided to attack him.
keith
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:14 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
Good to be online at the same time.
> Any news? Germany is hinting that he might like to attack France, but I
> would suspect that he would want to go after Russia first. After all,
> France is not going to gain any supply centers right away, and the French
> units will only have to move further away from Germany, making it easier
> for Germany to stab. What do you think?
I was away yesterday and I got no chance to talk to people and you and
Russia are the only ones I received messages from, no I got a mail from
Steve too. Steve talks to me of two alliances AGI and GRI. At least his
press is consistent. Adam says that Steve is giving Nwy to him. Steve has
talked about 2-2 split of Den,Swe,Nwy,Stp before. I know I put myself
under a danger while I tell you all this but I want to be honest with you
'cause no matter what the alliances will be I am gaining nothing from you.
France is my main concern.
> Given that you built an army, one of us will need to move a fleet to the
> Ionian Sea. I suspect that you would not want me there, but if that is
> your preference, I can do it.
I am not sure yet if I want you there or should I move there. It all
depends on how much France can talk you to his side. I mean, I am wide
open to you attack. Once again don't take this as offend, I try to be
honest with.
> It should be easy for you to get Ankara soon. You could be assured of
> getting it this year, but you would need to use three units (Con-Smy,
> Bul-Con, Aeg S Bul-Con) in the Spring, and two in the Fall (Smy-Ank, Con
> S Smy-Ank).
I think it is not wise to attack Russia now. At least for me. He can
prevent it by moving Sev-Arm and I am paranoid of the AFG. I am on the
edge if I FG keeps solid and you take only one center from me, it is
goodbye to me.
> I think we should make sure we dislodge Germany from Tyrolia, despite his
> claims he wants to move to Piedmont, what do you think? He can't do
> anything with it now, but once France moves an army to Mar and then Pie,
> Germany's presence in Tyrolia could be troublesome. I should move either
> Vie or Tri to Tyr supported by the other two units.
It all depend on what do we think Germany will order. If he orders Tyr-Pie
it would be enought to move Ven-Pie,Rom-Ven and you dislodge him alon.
In case of Tyr h, Mun s Tyr I would suggest co-operation between us. I am
not sure if I want to let him to retreat to Pie.
> I am not sure yet what moves to make against Russia. It is not going to
> be easy to get into Sev or War without help.
Russia still wants me to attack Greece. I won't do it, easy to see why.
I am telling to him that I am neutral towards him. I asked the same from
him.
---
My dream continuation from this point is still AGI. If Germany could
retreat voluntarily from Tyr I would turn against Russia immediately with
my eastern troops. Maybe it would be something like:
Austria + 2 or 3 Italian units against Russia in south
Germany against Nwy and Stp in north
The rest of Germany and the rest of Italy against France.
---
I will send the lines between '---' to Steve too.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:16 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hi Steve,
> > I'll tell you about saunas when our position is less tense.
>
> Thanks for being so direct; I appreciate it. And, I agree.
I hope it doesn't sound offending or unpolite. I am not good in
writing politely sometimes. I don't mean it, it just comes when you don't
concentrate on writing enough.
> In order to reduce the tension, I think we need to talk a bit more. You and
> I in particular, and AGI or GIR in general.
I agree. In both AGI and in GIR, I am heading against France. I have no
choice. Depending on the alliance structure I am willing to tease either R
or A with some units.
> Yes, I do understand that and I do appreciate it, but right now I favor a
> relatively strong Russia. I've told Adam that he can keep Norway and St
> Pete to support his effort in the east/south. I'd much rather see him use
> those units against Keith than against you.
This implies that you are heading towards AFG and I don't like it. In AGI
there is no need to keep Adam strong quite the opposite.
If you are interested in AGI I have sent these lines to Keith and I hope
you see them also:
---
My dream continuation from this point is still AGI. If Germany could
retreat voluntarily from Tyr I would turn against Russia immediately with
my eastern troops. Maybe it would be something like:
Austria + 2 or 3 Italian units against Russia in south
Germany against Nwy and Stp in north
The rest of Germany and the rest of Italy against France.
---
I don't believe in AGI unless you move Tyr-Mun or Tyr-Boh. Preferably to
Mun. I am really aware of the possible AFG and I am really scared of the
potential fastess of my destruction if you 3 go together. You are the key
here 'cause you would gain nothing from me (maybe Venice for awhile).
France has turned his back on you and you should take your chance there
is no guarantee that you'll get another chance to attack France like now.
> Maybe you and Adam can come to some agreement in Turkey which would allow
> him to keep Ankara and concentrate on Austria while you keep Bul/Con/Smy and
> concentrate on Rod. That's what I'd like to see.
That is already done. There is no friction between Adam and me unless he
moves Sev-Arm.
Both Adam and Keith have been _very_ nice to me. I mean, they have talked
a lot (even Keith after the slow start) and they have told the truth and
if not the truth there has always been a good understandable reason to not
tell the truth.
So let me know if you like the idea of AGI. There is no weak points in
AGI. No-one in the middle. Hard to get two on one situation. I see that
the same arguments fit to AFG also. Well not excatly you could be in the
middle there.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:18 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hi Steve,
I almost forgot to tell you the important peace of info I got from France.
I have told him that he is wide open against your stab if he move like he
did. His response was that someone will help him against Germany. He
sounded confident. He really did. I know I am not good in reading between
the lines but this is how I feel.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:19 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
> > The problem is that Keith has difficulties to attack Keith.
>
> Hummm. Steve would have difficultes attacking Keith?
> Keith would have difficulties attacking Steve?
:-) Sorry, I meant Steve has difficulties attacking Keith.
> Obviously he may do that, there's not much I could do to stop
> him right now, but he's still maintaining that he'll support
> me into Norway this year. He may be telling the truth, it's
> clear that his units are headed south rather than east.
He may tell the truth. I am not sure. We have talked a bit of GRI
alliance. The problem is his army in Tyrolia. I am ready to be a member of
GRI all it needs is Tyr-Mun or Tyr-Boh. Tyr-Pie is out of the question. I
am still paranoid of AFG and the less AFG units are bordering my supplies
the better.
> You could take, for example (I feel like a broken record) Gre and
> let me take Bul back perhaps? There are always options beyond
> direct cooperation.
How could you get Bul? I am interested of options beyond direct
cooperation if I get AFG fears away. It means basically Tyr-Mun or
Tyr-Boh. In GRI I would attack France and help you against Keith, mainly
my units would be in west but I am sure I could give you a hand in east
too. You probably think this is an empty promise, I understand but I must
concentrate on Rod now. I hope you understand.
> > if you just dispand your fleet in Black Sea.
>
> As I'm sure you noticed, I have done this.
I thank you. That is a good start for us. I am afraid of Sev-Arm now :-)
I am paranoid, right! *grin*
> Well, we'll have to leave it like that for a while now
> I guess, but I can't promise anything at all long term
> down there. I was prepared for you to have one of Bul
> and Con, you've taken both. I will take one back at
> some point.
Let me play a song from your broken record: It was Con to Austria, Ank to
Russia and Smy to Italy. I feel like I have taken Bul and Con from Austria
not from you :-) I mean this in a friendly way Adam. It is always hard to
make jokes with strange language.
If we get GRI going I am ready to give you Bul or con when I have the
chance.
> Possibly not, he wanted F Bla to stay and A Ukr to go. I didn't
> think I could do that. We'll see. I think Keith may find himself
> busy fighting Steve in no time anyway.
Really? He told me differently about the removals.
I think our long term goal should be GIR. Your 'natural' ally is of course
France but there is a high possiblity of French solo 'cause every 3rd
members would be in between you two. No matter how things go I'll
concentrate on Rod at first. I hope we can get this GIR alliance going.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:21 2001
Message from Elladan915 at netzero.net as Turkey to Italy and Master in 'gutsy':
> Broadcast message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy in 'gutsy':
>
> > > >> I never had to stab a sole.
> > >
> > > >Well, just be sure to get a tetanus shot if you ever do.
> > >
> > > You realize that I was referring to Achilles! :-)
> > >
> > > Tough crowd. :-)
> >
> > I figured it was some sort of reference to your lack of fishing skill...
> > *shrug* ;^} (Raine is almost certainly, completely lost by now...)
>
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
>
> Eric, please! The fishing part got me lost... Let me think about it....
>
> ...I got your point ;-)
>
> Ps. Wasn't it the heel that was the vulnerable part of Achilles? I thought
> sole was the bottom of ones foot...
Yes. Roger actually intended to use the word, "soul", which means both
the spirit of a human, and also an individual, but instead used the homonym,
"sole" which means the bottom of a shoe, the bottom of a foot, (though if
you stabbed up through the bottom of the heel, and therefore through the
sole of the foot, you could strike the Achilles' tendon, I suppose.), and a
primitive flatfish, that is quite tasty (often called "Dover sole"). I
suppose
if we wanted to continue the humor (or at least the attempts 8-), we could
make reference to the sun, since its name, Sol, is also pronounced the same
way.
Eric, the Language-Arts Instructor. ;^}
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:33 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Turkey in 'gutsy':
Hi Eric,
I am happy to reckognize that you are around :-)
> (though if
> you stabbed up through the bottom of the heel, and therefore through the
> sole of the foot, you could strike the Achilles' tendon, I suppose.),
I got it. Thanks to you. But if you stab the sole of the foot you may miss
the heel, right? Words related anatomy are not too familiar to me.
About gutsy, may I disagree with you of the outcome of gutsy? I mean, I'd
bet my money on 3way draw. I am afraid it is AGF, if I am not there. I
cannot see FGI, do you want to clarify your prediction?
What comes to level of communication (or lack of it) in eastern parts of
the map, I feel bad. I assume that you are pointing your finger at me.
I know I am not the most talkative person. I could give you excuses like
time zones etc. but let's forget that. The bottomline is that this is my
4th partial press game. I have put myself into a tough company. I already
feel that I am the next to go.
About JDPR and your elimination: I would have loved to ally with you if
you had had some other country or some other opinions of our co-operation.
I admit that I am inexperienced and that made me reclutant to go for IT
alliance. Still, the main reason was the 3-1 situation I had chance to
join.
Like I said, I would have loved to see you as a leader of some other
country. Your press made sense and you could tell the reasons why you
wanted something. It was sad that I had the chance of my life to get you
out of the map. Afterall it is hard to ally as Italy and Turkey.
I hope I can send you a note every now and then. It would be also nice if
you had time to reply. If nothing else maybe you want to further my
downfall with bad advise :-)
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:42 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to France in 'gutsy':
> I think it would be wise to order Ank-Con, in case Con-Smy,
> Bul/Aeg-Con (which threatens Ank).
Yes, best not to leave anything to trust or chance
with those two anymore.
> Steve says he's going to help you in the east, so hopefully
> things will go well for you.
I hope so, but he's definately writing less press to me
now, which is odd since we finally have something to
actually do together. It's always a worry that you
can expect a stab when there's little press.
> You could force Gal with Tyl-Vie, Sev-Rum, War S Ukr-Gal,
> though there's a risk of Rum-Ukr. Personally I think it's
> worth the risk: the benefit is great, and an
> Austrian army in Ukr, though a crisis, should be manageable.
> A "safe" option is Sev-Rum, War-Gal, with Ukr supporting
> either, but it's less likely to accomplish anything.
Getting Gal would be handy, but as you point out,
if I'm to actually take it then I'd need to do it
safely. I think that means War - Gal which is
only guarenteed if Tyr cut's Vie support. And
Steve hasn't replied to my press about that
so it's hard.
Pre.........
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:44 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hi Steve.
We really should get some talking done. I don't think there's
much point in taking Nwy until the fall. It would only
allow Brent to retreat to Bar and threaten StP again,
better to leave it until the fall so his retreat isn't
dangerous.
Have you considered what you will do with Tyr? There's
a very good chance it will be dislodged I'd think,
especially if Mun isn't supporting it. Since that's
the case would it be possible to use it to cut Vie
support so that I can take Gal from Austria this
spring? It's definately the space we need to take
if we're going to crack Keith at all.
Pre..........
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:46 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
> I am not sure yet that I want to attack Italy. I am thinking that he
> will be occupied by France, and that he won't be able to cause too much
> trouble in the East.
Probably true, but you have to attack someone if you want
to make any gains, and if you're not attacking me anymore
who else is it going to be?
> Now, if Germany moves against you, which I expect, despite Germany's
> hints that he might do something else, then perhaps we could work
> together against him. Germany denies telling you that he plans to attack
> me, so one of us is being deceived.
The fact one of us is being decieved isn't exactly a
surprize. I'd been offering to work with you against
Germany for a while, but those Italian centers are
much closer. There's no way we could make gains
from Germany this year.
> Do you still feel threatened by Italy, or is it just
> that you see the Italian centers as your best opportunity
> right now?
I don't think there's much direct threat, France is going
to be Raine's main concern, but I don't see where there
are any other centers we could easily take together.
Can you think of anything? The problem is that i can't
move my units even in Germany's direction until we
have managed to DMZ Gal.
Adam.....................
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:47 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
> How could you get Bul?
Well I'd take Bul after I'd taken Rum from Austria.
There's not much we can do short-term.
> I thank you. That is a good start for us. I am afraid of Sev-Arm now :-)
> I am paranoid, right! *grin*
And I'm also afraid of Aeg - Con and Con - Amy. Until you have
moved your fleet in Aeg away to fight France there will
be a possibility of fighting between us. If you aren't
planning on doing that then at least land the fleet
in Smy to avoid that posibility.
> Really? He told me differently about the removals.
He was at least thinking about letting me take Rum
back if I did so with a fleet. I think he's lying to
me an awful lot so it's hard to know what he really
thinks.
> I think our long term goal should be GIR. Your 'natural' ally is of course
> France but there is a high possiblity of French solo 'cause every 3rd
> members would be in between you two. No matter how things go I'll
> concentrate on Rod at first. I hope we can get this GIR alliance going.
I'd sooner see a french solo than be eliminated. It's
a loss for me either way.
Adam........
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:50 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
It is always good to be online at the same time.
> Well I'd take Bul after I'd taken Rum from Austria.
> There's not much we can do short-term.
There is! You can be sure of at least neutral Italy if you do not move
Sev-Arm. I am going to NOT move further east. I repeat I am not trying to
take Ankara from you. I can not affort it.
> And I'm also afraid of Aeg - Con and Con - Amy. Until you have
> moved your fleet in Aeg away to fight France there will
> be a possibility of fighting between us. If you aren't
> planning on doing that then at least land the fleet
> in Smy to avoid that posibility.
Adam I have previously moved the way you did not like but I haven't lied
to you. Now I willl promise you that I wont' move Aeg-Con and Con-Smy.
> He was at least thinking about letting me take Rum
> back if I did so with a fleet. I think he's lying to
> me an awful lot so it's hard to know what he really
> thinks.
Ok, I see. AR conflict seems to be hard to avoid.
> > I think our long term goal should be GIR. Your 'natural' ally is of course
> > France but there is a high possiblity of French solo 'cause every 3rd
> > members would be in between you two. No matter how things go I'll
> > concentrate on Rod at first. I hope we can get this GIR alliance going.
>
> I'd sooner see a french solo than be eliminated. It's
> a loss for me either way.
Now I don't follow. Don't you think GIR has a chance in future? I mean, I
agree with you, I'd rather see someone getting a solo than a draw where I
am not a part. I thought you were talking with Steve about getting Nwy to
you. Was it a lie? If not then GIR should have a chance.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:55 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
> Adam I have previously moved the way you did not like but I haven't lied
> to you. Now I willl promise you that I wont' move Aeg-Con and Con-Smy.
Well, fair enough, I'd still like to see Aeg either move
to Ion or Smy, we're pretty safe if you do that.
> Now I don't follow. Don't you think GIR has a chance in future?
Hard to see what I can do if you and Austria are both
refusing to help me take any centers, getting Rum back
will be hard enough.
> I mean, I agree with you, I'd rather see someone getting a
> solo than a draw where I am not a part. I thought you were
> talking with Steve about getting Nwy to
> you. Was it a lie? If not then GIR should have a chance.
Well, he said he would, and that's good but he's also
being fairly quiet which is unusual. I think there's
a good chance that he's either lying or changing his
mind. Keith's certainly hoping to see Steve fight
me, and he seems quite confident that he's right.
Adam.........
From - Wed Oct 31 19:34:59 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
> Well, fair enough, I'd still like to see Aeg either move
> to Ion or Smy, we're pretty safe if you do that.
I am thinking of the move Aeg-Ion but it is too early to say if I'll move
there. I could say that Aeg-Ion is more likely than Aeg-Smy though.
> Hard to see what I can do if you and Austria are both
> refusing to help me take any centers, getting Rum back
> will be hard enough.
In GIR the first step for you is to take Nwy. Then you have a build and
then you are more independent of AI's help. In GIR I have the will to help
you but looking that map tells that it is hard for me to help you
otherwise than moving away from our common border. In GIR I will help you
when I have the chance there is no problem.
> Well, he said he would, and that's good but he's also
> being fairly quiet which is unusual. I think there's
> a good chance that he's either lying or changing his
> mind. Keith's certainly hoping to see Steve fight
> me, and he seems quite confident that he's right.
Steve has been silent to me too. I am sure that you have talked way
more than to Steve than I have. I have no evidence of Steve's possible
attack against you. I can see by looking at the map that it is highly
likely that he will take Nwy and if so he'll continue to Stp. If he does
so I am willing to hear your comments on how I can help you.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:01 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria and Germany in
'gutsy':
Keith and Steve,
I have sent a proposal for both of you privately. I try to be open once
again. Could you comment the AGI triple?
France is clearly hostile towards Italy. We all know that Rod is very good
diplomat, still he hasn't replied to me. I don't know Rod otherwise than
from gutsy but he has shown that he is a true diplomat. He was so
convincing in his diploming. He wanted me to attack Keith. I did not. Why?
I thought I do a favour to both of you by taking centers from Adam.
Now I would appreciate if you could share your comments of AGI with me. I
mean, in this open way where all of us can see it.
We all have a separate way of expansion in AGI. We all can enjoy of the
fact that no-one is in the middle in AGI. We all know how well FR are
coming along. So could you give me a note of AGI? Could you tell me if you
can see some difficulties in AGI? If you cannot then I have to assume that
you have some better options. Then I am doomed and I am already figuring
out how could I be a very mean guy to both you :-)
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:04 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia in
'gutsy':
Adam,
> he's definately writing less press to me
> now, which is odd since we finally have something to
> actually do together.
I received something from him yesterday, but he does seem a little less talkative
than usual.
> > You could force Gal with Tyl-Vie, Sev-Rum, War S Ukr-Gal,
> > though there's a risk of Rum-Ukr.
>
> Getting Gal would be handy, but as you point out,
> if I'm to actually take it then I'd need to do it
> safely. I think that means War - Gal which is
> only guarenteed if Tyr cut's Vie support.
You do need Tyr-Vie, but even so, War-Gal won't work if Rum-Ukr. Ukr-Gal can be
guaranteed, though it's riskier.
> And Steve hasn't replied to my press about that
> so it's hard.
I'll ask him what's up. Maybe he's just busy.
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:03 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
FYI, Adam seems to think you've been less talkative lately, which worries him.
He says he's planning Ukr S War-Gal, but he needs Tyr-Vie to cut support. That's
fine with me, though I think War S Ukr-Gal would be better, because the support is
uncuttable, though it does risk Rum-Ukr succeeding.
Concerning the west, how would you feel about withdrawing from Nth in the Fall?
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:06 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
I wonder if you got my mail to you awhile ago? You have turned out to be a
good diplomat and they have the habit to answer the mails they receive.
I interpret your silence so that you'll continue your attack against me.
I wonder what you are up to? If I stand and fight you'll get my centers
very slowly and only if Steve won't attack you. Ofcourse if you get help
against me then you'll get less centers but you get them faster but the
question is are you getting any help?
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:08 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
> I believe Russia is willing to help you. He did remove fleet in Black Sea
> like you wanted. For some reason he claims that you wanted him to remove
> army in Ukraine. Did you suggest Ukr and Bla?
I did not make any strong suggestions to Russia, but I feel I did
encourage him to remove F Bla. I don't remember mentioning anything
about Ukr. Germany seemed to know precisely what Russia was doing, so
perhaps he had some influence.
> Like you said we I need 3 fleets against France. It is 3 if there is 2
> Italian and one Austrian fleet. If we had the chance we could exhcange
> Tunis to you and Greece to me if you will. France has been telling very
> little of his moves. I believe he'll move excatly like you said. I know
> that Tunis is hard to get to you but if there comes a chance I am willing
> to give it to you.
I think that is is not going to be possible for me to get Tunis. Tunis
is going to be under siege, and there will be no opportunity for you to
move from there.
> Germany can also see GRI.
It sounds like Germany is proposing to everyone the three-way draws that
include them. He suggests AGI or AFG to me, AGI and GIR to you, probably
AFG and FGR to France, and FGR and GIR to Russia. Do you think that
Germany is actually entertaining all of these possibilities?
> Russia keeps telling me that Steve is more afraid of Austria than Russia.
> Do you know Steve personally? I mean, I have the feeling that you know
> just due to Russian talks. Maybe you have played in same games or
> something. Anyway Russia have been honest with me for a long time. I do
> believe that his story is true. I don't know if Germany is telling the
> truth to Russia though.
I don't recall having played any previous games with Germany, and I
certainly have never met him or know him personally. I think this is
just propaganda. Germany wants Russia to believe that he (Germany) wants
to attack me (Austria) and not him (Russia).
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:10 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to England in 'gutsy':
Hi Brent,
How are you? I want to tell you the info I have heard according to Norway.
Russia told me that Germany will give Norway to him. Later Russia has
started to wonder if the deal is valid 'cause Germany has been
surprisingly silent. Some time ago I heard from Germany that he had agreed
2-2 split in north with Russia.
France and Germany both answered to me in the same way when I asked of
Belgium. They both told me that the plan is to change Bel to Edi this
year.
I don't know if you can use the info or even if it is relevant but I want
to share you my little knowledge with you.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:11 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
> I did not make any strong suggestions to Russia, but I feel I did
> encourage him to remove F Bla. I don't remember mentioning anything
> about Ukr. Germany seemed to know precisely what Russia was doing, so
> perhaps he had some influence.
Ok, one of you is talking rubbish. So far you both have been honest.
> I think that is is not going to be possible for me to get Tunis. Tunis
> is going to be under siege, and there will be no opportunity for you to
> move from there.
I agree. Tunis is unlikely to be yours for awhile.
> > Germany can also see GRI.
>
> It sounds like Germany is proposing to everyone the three-way draws that
> include them. He suggests AGI or AFG to me, AGI and GIR to you, probably
> AFG and FGR to France, and FGR and GIR to Russia. Do you think that
> Germany is actually entertaining all of these possibilities?
To my eyes the real ones are AGI and AGF. In AGF Germany is in the middle
but it is not a problem. GIR is possible but unlikely.
> I don't recall having played any previous games with Germany, and I
> certainly have never met him or know him personally. I think this is
> just propaganda. Germany wants Russia to believe that he (Germany) wants
> to attack me (Austria) and not him (Russia).
Then it is well planned propaganda. At the start Germany mentioned that
'Keith is not very talkative but a great tactic'. Maybe not with those
words but the point is clear.
What does Steve say to you of AGI?
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:14 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
This turn will be very complicated. The deadline will be in the friday
morning for both of us. Do you think you'll be awake at time of next
deadline? I am sure there will be set wait or that I'll have my orders in
just before the deadline. It would help me a lot if I knew that you are
able to read the last minute press I might be willing to sent to you.
My apologies if I sound weird but I want to know if I am able to use the
last minutes to talk with you.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:15 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Italy in
'gutsy':
Raine,
> I wonder if you got my mail to you awhile ago? You have turned out to be a
> good diplomat and they have the habit to answer the mails they receive.
Yes, I received your message. I apologize for not replying sooner. Unfortunately,
I'm not sure I have anything to say that you want to hear.
> I interpret your silence so that you'll continue your attack against me.
I'd say that's "fairly likely". ;-)
> If I stand and fight you'll get my centers
> very slowly and only if Steve won't attack you.
I am aware of that. Unfortunately, if I attack Steve instead, I don't think that
will get me any centers either. I had to choose between two unattractive alternatives.
> What was the hurry?
I admit that I was impatient. However, I think that it was better for me to make a
decision than to wait and see what happens. Just because you wait doesn't necessarily
mean that the situation will improve.
> Think about it Turkey is gone and I have units in
> homeland and in Turkey i.e. nicely around Austria.
> At the moment I cannot do anything against Austria untill I see some
> goodwill from your direction.
Why not attack Austria and defend against me at the same time? You have plenty of
units for home defense, and you should be able to take Gre with little trouble. And
if Austria is facing pressure from the north, he can not effectively retaliate against
you. Best of all, getting builds will make it even easier for you to defend, and then
I'll have no choice but to move against Germany.
> I offer assistance :-) How can I help you?
I need someone to divert Germany's attention so that I can achieve success against him.
Who will do that for me?
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:16 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Austria in
'gutsy':
Keith,
I have decided to attack Italy (pretty obvious, eh?). I suppose your enemy is still
Russia? Unfortunately, I think there's little that we can do for each other right now.
I can't attack Russia, and it would be foolish for you to help me against Italy while
you're beset from the north. Hopefully we'll have a common enemy sometime in the future.
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:18 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
> > I did not make any strong suggestions to Russia, but I feel I did
> > encourage him to remove F Bla. I don't remember mentioning anything
> > about Ukr. Germany seemed to know precisely what Russia was doing, so
> > perhaps he had some influence.
>
> Ok, one of you is talking rubbish. So far you both have been honest.
I don't know what Russia has said, but I really did not have any detailed
discussions with him about his builds or disbands. In fact, if Germany
had not told me that Russia was going to disband F Bla, I would have
thought that Russia would have kept it, because our conversations centered
around his telling me that he planned to take Rumania back, and that I
should attack Bulgaria for compensation.
I also don't see why Russia would be dishonest about this, since it is not
something that is important or would have any bearing on our strategies.
I just don't see what there would be to gain by suggesting that I wanted
him to remove his army from Ukr. It doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps
there is just some confusion.
> > I don't recall having played any previous games with Germany, and I
> > certainly have never met him or know him personally. I think this is
> > just propaganda. Germany wants Russia to believe that he (Germany) wants
> > to attack me (Austria) and not him (Russia).
>
> Then it is well planned propaganda. At the start Germany mentioned that
> 'Keith is not very talkative but a great tactic'. Maybe not with those
> words but the point is clear.
I really don't know where that comes from. I tried to use the form at
onesite.org to see which games that he and I played in together, but the
form did not work. It is possible we played together at some point, but
I just don't remember. I have not played in a large number of games with
press.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had spread the same information to both you
and Russia. Saying that someone "doesn't talk much but is a great
tactician" is the thing to say if you want to cause the most concern about
someone. I hope I have erased any fears of yours that I do not
communicate much. I am writing frequently, and I would write even more if
I were not feverishly working on my dissertation.
> What does Steve say to you of AGI?
I have not heard from him in a while, but the last I knew, I told you.
He wanted to move to Piedmont, Ruh, Bel and Mun to attack France. I
don't know if he actually intends to do this, or whether he was just
suggesting that this is what he could do if he decides to attack France.
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:19 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
> I'd say that's "fairly likely". ;-)
:-) Here in Finland we have a saying 'laugh it makes you live longer' is
there such saying in english :-)
> I am aware of that. Unfortunately, if I attack Steve instead, I don't
> think that will get me any centers either. I had to choose between two
> unattractive alternatives.
I understand. I need to increase my unattractiveness. I wonder if I make a
full attack against Austria and try to make sure both Austria and Russia
will endup weak... hmm... I need to think about it. It would help Germany
to grow and maybe encourage him to attack you. I don't know.
> Why not attack Austria and defend against me at the same time?
I have a feeling that I would sign my death sentence.
> You have
> plenty of units for home defense, and you should be able to take Gre
> with little trouble. And if Austria is facing pressure from the north,
> he can not effectively retaliate against
> you.
It is uncertain if Austria will face the pressure in north.
> Best of all, getting builds will make it even easier for you to
> defend, and then I'll have no choice but to move against Germany.
I would lose Tunis to you if I attack Austria now. I had to get two
centers from Austria to have a build. That is impossible and to get
builds, no.
> I need someone to divert Germany's attention so that I can achieve success
> against him. Who will do that for me?
Not me :-) Have you tried to talk Brent to move Nwy-Nwg and to continue to
Edi? I have been concentrating to get Steve to attack you naturally.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:21 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to France in 'gutsy':
> I have decided to attack Italy (pretty obvious, eh?). I suppose your
> enemy is still Russia? Unfortunately, I think there's little that we can
> do for each other right now. I can't attack Russia, and it would be
> foolish for you to help me against Italy while you're beset from the
> north. Hopefully we'll have a common enemy sometime in the future.
I don't know who my enemy is now. I was surprised to see Russia remove
his fleet from the Black Sea. It looks like he's going to let me keep
Rumania.
Am I beset from the North? What do you mean? Is Germany telling you
that he is going to try to attack me, or something? What do you think
Germany will do? It seems that to everyone he is talking to, he is
suggesting two triple alliances that include that person and Germany.
For instance, he is suggesting either AGI or AFG to me, and AGI or GIR to
Italy. One would presume that he is suggesting AFG and FGR to you, and
GIR and FGR to Russia.
What do you think? When will we know that Germany is doing? Do you think
he will sit and wait? Since you are not going to get any supply centers
any time soon, probably, and since the longer Germany waits, the more
forces you have moved against Italy, maybe waiting is not such a bad idea
for Germany.
You are right that I cannot attack Italy if you are attacking him and
Germany is not attacking you. I suppose I can sit and wait too. I don't
like Germany's army in Tyrolia, though. That is going to have to go.
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:22 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
> I also don't see why Russia would be dishonest about this, since it is not
> something that is important or would have any bearing on our strategies.
> I just don't see what there would be to gain by suggesting that I wanted
> him to remove his army from Ukr. It doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps
> there is just some confusion.
He wants to break AI? He thinks he is in AR alliance and he wants to fool
me? I don't know.
> > Then it is well planned propaganda. At the start Germany mentioned that
> > 'Keith is not very talkative but a great tactic'. Maybe not with those
> > words but the point is clear.
>
> I really don't know where that comes from. I tried to use the form at
> onesite.org to see which games that he and I played in together, but the
> form did not work. It is possible we played together at some point, but
> I just don't remember. I have not played in a large number of games with
> press.
I am too lazy to check this out but maybe Steve and you have a common
friend or something.
> I wouldn't be surprised if he had spread the same information to both you
> and Russia. Saying that someone "doesn't talk much but is a great
> tactician" is the thing to say if you want to cause the most concern about
> someone. I hope I have erased any fears of yours that I do not
> communicate much. I am writing frequently, and I would write even more if
> I were not feverishly working on my dissertation.
I have no problems with your communication. I am less talkative in AI
talks than you, I guess. Steve seems to respect your skills a lot. He has
told it to me and Russia tells that Steve tells him similar things.
> > What does Steve say to you of AGI?
>
> I have not heard from him in a while, but the last I knew, I told you.
> He wanted to move to Piedmont, Ruh, Bel and Mun to attack France. I
> don't know if he actually intends to do this, or whether he was just
> suggesting that this is what he could do if he decides to attack France.
I am afraid of the latter. A move to Piedmont would be a pain to me while
I am afraid of AFG. Maybe I should tell you that I am going to either
support Ven to hold or I am moving Ven-Pie,Rom-Ven? Could you live with
that? I mean, Tyr-Pie and Mun-Bur would leave Munich open to you. You
should know it for sure 'cause Steve won't let you move to Tyr if he is
to attack France. As long as you don't know Steve's intention we should
not dream of German attack against France.
What comes to move to Ion at the moment I think I should move there
instead of you. Let's talk about this later when we know more of Steve's
intention.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:24 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Austria in
'gutsy':
Keith,
> I don't know who my enemy is now. I was surprised to see Russia remove
> his fleet from the Black Sea. It looks like he's going to let me keep
> Rumania.
He really had no good choice for his second removal. I think he just plans to focus
on defense rather than offense right now.
> Is Germany telling you
> that he is going to try to attack me, or something?
> One would presume that he is suggesting AFG and FGR to you
FGR is what he's saying to me. Whether he's more honest with me than with you is
debatable.
> What do you think? When will we know that Germany is doing?
I think his order for Tyl this turn will be quite telling.
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:25 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Italy in
'gutsy':
Raine,
> Here in Finland we have a saying 'laugh it makes you live longer' is
> there such saying in english :-)
"Laughter is the best medicine."
> I need to increase my unattractiveness.
That is not something that one normally hears from someone. :-)
> It is uncertain if Austria will face the pressure in north.
What GR tell me is that they hope to cooperate against Austria, but of course I
can't really be certain.
> Have you tried to talk Brent to move Nwy-Nwg and to continue to Edi?
That would be more of a nuisance than an effective attack.
> I have been concentrating to get Steve to attack you naturally.
That's probably your best bet - but I hope you don't succeed. (Sorry!) :-)
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:26 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
I need to go soon. I have talked with France and he said that RG has
promised to attack you. That's why he ain't too much afraid of Germany
attacking him.
That would explain Russia's wierd talks to me. He is confusing me to not
to trust you. That would be clever in RG against A.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:29 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Okay, I looked at the map. There is some danger from France. He can't
take Tunis this year, but there is some chance that he can dislodge Tys
in the Fall and be able to take Tunis the next year. Even if you guess
correctly this Fall, the danger will still be there later. Somehow you
need to get another fleet into Italy.
It would be great to see you get Ankara from Russia. This is your best
chance to get an additional supply center--I don't want to give you one
of mine until I can get a replacement.
Russia is not going to move Sev-Arm. How could he? He only has three
armies, and he needs them all to protect Sev, War and Mos. I don't think
he would be more concerned about Ank than about his home supply centers.
If he loses Ank, he just has to disband the fleet, and he is no worse off.
The only way to get Ank for certain, though, is to support Bul-Con in the
Spring and move Con-Smy. You will be able to get Ank next year if you
move Con-Smy and Bul-Con with no support. Next year the extra fleet
might not be so useful.
Here is the plan that I propose. This turn, we make the following moves:
Spring
Italy: Nap-Tys, Tun S Nap-Tys, Con-Smy, Bul-Con, Aeg S Bul-Con
Austria: Gre-Ion
France will move Mid-Naf, Wes S Mid-Naf, Iri-Mid, Mar-Lyo, Gas-Mar
Fall
Italy: Tun-Tys, Tys-Wes, Smy-Ank, Con S Smy-Ank, Aeg-Gre
Austria: Ion S Tun-Tys, Ser-Bul
(Note the swapping of Greece for Bulgaria.)
I think France will probably attempt to dislodge Tys, and this is why I
suggest the above moves for the Fall. Tun would be safe under any
circumstance other than Wes-Tun, Naf S Wes-Tun.
In this case, even if France does do this and you lose Tunis, you will
still get a build, and then you will have an inpeneterable defense
against France. You will have F Tys, my F Ion, and new F Rom to give two
supports to Tys. Plus, you will have armies in Ven and Tus, and I will
be in Tyrolia.
In the best case, you will keep Tun *and* get a build, in which case you
will have an inpeneterable defense of Tunis.
So, no matter what France does, after this year, his advance against you
will grind to a halt.
Now, he will be moving all of his fleets against you, and this will give
Germany a good opportunity to attack France. I suspect that Germany will
convoy Edi-Bel this turn and that France will move Lvp-Edi. This
disentangles France and Germany from each other fairly well.
Germany will never get a better shot against France, and you might even
be able to get Germany to stab France in the Fall, if he is willing at all.
What do you think?
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:31 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to France in 'gutsy':
> > What do you think? When will we know that Germany is doing?
>
> I think his order for Tyl this turn will be quite telling.
I doubt it. He is probably telling us both the same thing. The line he
seems to be pitching to Italy is that he wants to move Tyr-Pie in order
to attack you. He is probably telling you that he wants to move Tyr-Pie
to help you against Italy, right?
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:32 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
> I need to go soon. I have talked with France and he said that RG has
> promised to attack you. That's why he ain't too much afraid of Germany
> attacking him.
>
> That would explain Russia's wierd talks to me. He is confusing me to not
> to trust you. That would be clever in RG against A.
This is what one would epxect Germany to be telling France. Of course
perhaps it is the truth. I will make sure to guard against it as much as
I am able to.
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:33 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Russia and France in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
Rod tells me that you think I'm being quiet. Sorry I haven't written much;
I guess I need to engage a bit more here. Work, family, blah, blah, blah
I've cc'd Rod on this letter simply because there's absolutely no reason not
to. If it makes for better FGR coordination, I'm all for you both doing the
same.
Regarding spring orders, Mun and Tyr are available to cause whatever havoc
they can. Right now, I'm considering three sets of German orders. I'm kind
of a tactical guy, so please consider them carefully:
Candidate 1)
tyr - vie
mun - boh
kie - mun
Candidate 2)
tyr - vie
mun - sil
kie - mun
Candidate 3)
mun - boh
tyr s mun - boh
kie - mun
Of the three, I favor #2. That would guarantee you Galicia and give me at
least two units on Bohemia in the fall. Also, I think Ukr - Gal with
support from Warsaw and Sev - Rum is better than the other way around. If
Keith does order Rum - Ukr, you can still bounce in Mos in the fall *and*
you will have taken Gal.
Putting all that together, I think the best orders for GR in S'05 is:
Germany:
tyr - vie
mun - sil
kie - mun
Russia:
ukr - gal
war s ukr - gal
sev - rum
I'll wait until the fall to support you into Norway. What you said about
Brent's possible Spring retreat makes sense to me.
Also, just so you both know, Keith and Raine are pressuring me hard into a
stab of Rod. And, just to be honest, I pointed out to them exactly what I
could order against Rod and exactly what I would like them to do in support.
I'm willing to take whatever heat I need to from AI this turn, so my lies
might as well get something done. I'd like to see you re-take Rumania, hold
Ankara, and take Galicia. I'd also like to see Rod pressure Raine by
establishing A Mar, F Lyo, F Wes, and F Naf.
Next year, Rod can take Tunis while you and I pressure the heart of Austria.
I might ask for Norway at some point, but I will only attack un-announced if
it looks like Keith is getting the upper hand.
Write when you can. Thanks for being patient.
- Steve
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:34 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
Something bothers me. You and Keith have both been honest to me. Now you
are telling different stories according to the removals of last adjustment
phase. That is not a big deal, but why? I am not able to promise anything
to you or Keith untill I get this clear. Give me a comment please.
Raine
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:35 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi, I have a proposal. Italy is going to need another fleet to defend
against France. Would you be willing to move your fleet from Ankara to
Rumania and let Italy take Ankara? You would be no worse off than now,
and having your fleet in Rumania will go a long way towards creating a
peaceful situation between us.
What's in it for me? Well I think that you are going to be able to take
Rumania anyway, whether I like it or not, and especially if Germany is
willing to cooperate with you.
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:37 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
Thanks Rod. LOL. I'm working hard this turn. I knew I was stepping into
it deep with Mun - Tyr, but I think holding Mun would have been very bad for
an FG.
> I'm leaning toward MAO-NAf, Mar-Lyo, Gas-Mar, Par H, but I'm open to
suggestions.
I think that's best for both of us. As I said to Adam, I expect your next
center to be Tunis and I expect my next center to be Norway. Mine might
come later than yours, but I don't think that will give either one of us any
trouble.
Of the three suggestions I sent to Adam, which one would you prefer? Let me
know when you have the chance.
- Steve
P.S. Also, I'm willing to vacate Nth if you're willing to keep Eng open.
Maybe I follow-up my Edi - Bel convoy with Nth - Bel and Bel - Kie. How
does that sound?
My only problem with that is that Den would have to go to Ska to keep
pressure on Nwy. I need to think this out a bit more, but at least we have
something to chew on.
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:39 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
> Something bothers me. You and Keith have both been honest to me. Now you
> are telling different stories according to the removals of last adjustment
> phase. That is not a big deal, but why? I am not able to promise anything
> to you or Keith untill I get this clear. Give me a comment please.
I don't know what Keith is saying, but it's understandable
if we had misunderstandings over what he would have liked
me to disband since (A) there's little chance I'd have
taken any notice and (B) it was infered rather than explicitly
stated anyway.
Keith did say, at some point, that he wouldn't mind me
being in Rum if it was with a fleet. Indeed, he's saying
that even now - though I can't imagine how I'd get my
southern fleet safely into Rum at the moment.
I took that to mean he'd like me to keep A Bla.
There's still a day and a bit before the deadline, but
I won't be around during the last six hours or so before
the deadline. IT's at sixAM here and I'll still be in bed
but I stay up until gone midnight most nights and
check my email before I hit the sack.
Pre.........
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:40 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Austria and Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi Raine and Keith,
Thanks Raine for re-opening the AGI possibilities. From where I sit, I'd
love to see it, but I'm a touch concerned that I would end up facing France
all by myself.
I'm willing to order Tyr - Pie and I'm also willing to order Mun - Bur,
Edi - Bel and Kie - Ruh, but I need to see Nap - Tyn with support from
Tunis.
Also, I'd like to see you two trade Bulgaria and Greece. This might slow
you down by one season, but once it happens, you both have stable positions
to attack Rod and Adam. If Italy takes Greece and Austria takes Bulgaria,
AGI will follow.
Write when you can. Thanks.
- Steve
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:41 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy and Germany in
'gutsy':
Hi, as far as I can tell, Italy and I are already planning to do what you
have suggested, though the timing of everything is not clear.
I think that Italy would prefer that you not move to Piedmont, and I
would prefer that you evacuate Tyrolia immediately. Why not let Italy
move Ven-Pie and cut France's support in Mar if that's what you want?
It is not essential that it be your army in Piedmont, is it? You are
likely to be able to break into Burgundy, but I doubt the army in
Piedmont would be able to gain access to Marseilles any time soon, and it
would be a constant source of friction to Italy.
Instead of moving Kie-Ruh, Mun-Bur, Tyr-Pie, why not move Kie-Hol, Mun-Ruh
and Tyr-Mun? This seems like a better plan all around. It will be
interesting to see if you convince France to not move Lvp-Edi this year,
or perhaps you have already arranged with him to exchange Belgium for
Edinburgh.
What do you think?
Austria
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:46 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Germany and France in 'gutsy':
> Rod tells me that you think I'm being quiet. Sorry I haven't written much;
> I guess I need to engage a bit more here. Work, family, blah, blah, blah
I guessed it was more likely to me out-of-game stuff,
just wondered if you were in touch with anyone else.
> I've cc'd Rod on this letter simply because there's absolutely no reason not
> to. If it makes for better FGR coordination, I'm all for you both doing the
> same.
Fair enough.
> Candidate 1)
> tyr - vie
> mun - boh
> kie - mun
>
> Candidate 2)
> tyr - vie
> mun - sil
> kie - mun
>
> Candidate 3)
> mun - boh
> tyr s mun - boh
> kie - mun
>
> Of the three, I favor #2. That would guarantee you Galicia and give me at
> least two units on Bohemia in the fall. Also, I think Ukr - Gal with
> support from Warsaw and Sev - Rum is better than the other way around. If
> Keith does order Rum - Ukr, you can still bounce in Mos in the fall *and*
> you will have taken Gal.
I suspect you're right, though Sil is dangerously
close to War. I guess if you want me dead then
there's not much I can do about it anyway. The
main reason that I'm thinking you should leave
Boh empty is for a retreat if Tyr gets dislodged,
which I think it probably will (Ven and Tri have
little else to do, also Vie even if Ven - Pie).
That retreat will quite probably end up being
destroyed at it tries to retreat to Boh at
the same time as Gal does. I think we can stand
a tempory unitl loss more easily that Austria
though, especially if I get Rum as well which
I'm certainly hoping for.
> I'll wait until the fall to support you into Norway. What you said about
> Brent's possible Spring retreat makes sense to me.
No point letting him scrape though another year.
> Also, just so you both know, Keith and Raine are pressuring me hard into a
> stab of Rod. And, just to be honest, I pointed out to them exactly what I
> could order against Rod and exactly what I would like them to do in support.
Keith is trying to get me to move Ank - Bla - Rum this
year and let Raine take Ank. He's been trying to let
me have a fleet in Rum for a while, but I can't imagine
me going for this plan. Raine says he won't be trying
to get Ank anyway at the moment. Reckons he favours
Aeg - Ion but seems to be a little confused about
his relationship with Keith. This is probably a ploy,
the same one that worked last phase when Keith
covinced me he would order supports for Gre since
he couldn't trust Raine. Once bitten etc.
> I'm willing to take whatever heat I need to from AI this turn, so my lies
> might as well get something done. I'd like to see you re-take Rumania, hold
> Ankara, and take Galicia. I'd also like to see Rod pressure Raine by
> establishing A Mar, F Lyo, F Wes, and F Naf.
Getting France into that position shouldn't be
too hard, it can be done this spring. I'd have
thought a french fleet in Tys would be possible
by the fall, possibly also A Pie.
My taking Rum could be more akward though if I use
Ukr to take Gal. I'd only have A Sev and A Gal
bordering the province. Cutting Ser's support
is impossible so that would stand me of in Rum
in the fall. To take Rum I'd have to take Gal
with A War, which would fail if Rum - Ukr.
Keith tells me that he thinks I could probably
force Rum though, so perhaps he intends to
send Ser to Bud rather than supporting Rum.
> Next year, Rod can take Tunis while you and I
> pressure the heart of Austria. I might ask for
> Norway at some point, but I will only attack un-announced
> if it looks like Keith is getting the upper hand.
I have no problem with you taking Norway if I get
equivilent gains in Austria/Turkey. I can't really
defend it anyway, it's charity from the start.
Adam.........
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:48 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Austria and Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi Raine and Keith,
Thanks for your letter Keith.
I appreciate your suggestions; I'd be very happy with armies in Bel, Hol,
Ruh, and Mun. My one concern there is that I might be in a situation with
Austrian armies in Boh and Tyr and a French army in Burgundy. If that were
to happen, I'd be unable to protect Munich.
My I suggest instead that I order Tyr S Ven - Pie, Mun - Bur, Kie - Ruh, and
Edi - Bel? That way it takes two AI units to kick me out of Tyrolia and I'd
have a shot at taking Bur (or at least keeping it open). I'd also have a
retreat open in Bohemia. In the fall, I'm willing to order Nth - Eng.
Rod's promised me that Paris will hold and that Gas with move to Mar; any
advantage AGI has is based on Munich getting into Burgundy. If I don't
think that will happen, I'm better off playing FGR for a while longer. I
hope you both understand.
The other option is that I hold Edi, move Kie - Ruh, order Mun - Bur and
hope I get support for Tyr into Pie. If we choose that option, I'd also
order Swe - Nwy with support from North and move Den - Hel. In the fall,
I'd take Belgium, keep Edi, and Raine and I could work against Rod.
If I do that, though, I would insist on some sort of DMZ in the central
territories. Since I'd be committing against *both* France and Russia, I
would really need some more talk between us as well.
Write when you can. I'll be out tonight trick-or-treating with my kids, but
I'll be available afterwards and most of the day tomorrow.
Thanks.
- Steve
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:52 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
> Also, I'm willing to vacate Nth if you're willing to keep Eng open.
I think that's equitable, though the thought did occur to me that if I get paranoid
about your having an army in Bel all year, I might want to move Iri-Eng. It's probably
not a threat to you if MAO-NAf and Pic/Bur are empty, but I think the wide DMZ is
preferable to fortification.
> Maybe I follow-up my Edi - Bel convoy with Nth - Bel and Bel - Kie. How
> does that sound?
Do you mean Bel-Hol? That has the benefit of getting the army away from Bur ASAP,
but it seems somewhat awkward. If F Nth-Bel in Fall, you might as well do Edi-Hol
in the Spring, then you can move Hol-Kie in the Fall.
OTOH, Bel is not a good final resting place for that fleet. If I'm going to keep
Eng/Pic/Bur open, I'd like to see you vacate Nth/Bel/Ruh - but you need *something*
in Bel in order to capture it this Fall. I guess it could be the fleet, then you
move it to Hol next Spring, but then the unit is not of much use to you.
> My only problem with that is that Den would have to go to Ska to keep
> pressure on Nwy.
Is not having a fleet in Den a problem? Den is not threatened, though F Den does
give you the option of a quick thrust into Bal.
Maybe it would be easier to keep Edi German and Bel French. You could do Edi-Hol
in the Spring, then Hol-Kie, Nth-??? in the Fall. But I suppose that has risks as well.
I think the big question is where you want F Nth to be next year. What are your
thoughts on that?
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 19:35:51 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany
and Russia in 'gutsy':
Gentlemen,
> Candidate 1)
> tyr - vie
> mun - boh
> kie - mun
>
> Candidate 2)
> tyr - vie
> mun - sil
> kie - mun
>
> Candidate 3)
> mun - boh
> tyr s mun - boh
> kie - mun
>
> Of the three, I favor #2.
So do I. I don't like Kie-Mun, Mun-Boh (#1 and #3) because both moves are likely
to bounce. OTOH, there might be some benefit to bouncing an Austrian move to Boh,
so another possibility is Mun-Boh, Kie-Ber, Tyr-Vie.
> Also, just so you both know, Keith and Raine are pressuring me hard into a
> stab of Rod.
Yeah, I know. Raine is getting desperate, and Keith seems to think you're going
to move into Pie.
> I'd also like to see Rod pressure Raine by
> establishing A Mar, F Lyo, F Wes, and F Naf.
I think that's a good idea.
> The main reason that I'm thinking you should leave
> Boh empty is for a retreat if Tyr gets dislodged
Retreating to Pie is another possibility, though the unit would then be committed
to helping me against Italy rather than you against Austria.
> Keith is trying to get me to move Ank - Bla - Rum this
> year and let Raine take Ank.
He could sucker you with Ser S Rum and Gal-Ukr, so Bla-Rum fails and Raine takes
Ank and you're down one.
> I'd have thought a french fleet in Tys would be possible by the fall
Raine can defend either Tys or Tun, so I have to outguess him.
> To take Rum I'd have to take Gal
> with A War, which would fail if Rum - Ukr.
Even if War-Gal succeeds, you still won't get Rum if he retreats to Bud and orders
two supports for Rum in the Fall. I think taking Rum this year is a long shot either
way, whereas you can guarantee Gal. I'd rather take the sure thing now while Steve is
still able to tap Vie, and hope to leverage your position in Gal (and your new A Mos)
next year.
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 22:42:11 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Austria in
'gutsy':
> I doubt it. He is probably telling us both the same thing.
I always get a lot of satisfaction from making a move that could be
against either of two different players, and having them both agree to
it! I suppose Steve could be in that very position right now.
Rod
From - Wed Oct 31 22:42:12 2001
Message from Elladan915 at netzero.net as Turkey to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi Raine,
> I am happy to reckognize that you are around :-)
("recognize", and more typically it would be "happy to see")
> I got it. Thanks to you. But if you stab the sole of the foot you may miss
> the heel, right? Words related anatomy are not too familiar to me.
Yes, the sole is basically the entire bottom of the foot, while the heel is
the back part behind the arch, including the the part that rubs against the
back of your shoe.
> About gutsy, may I disagree with you of the outcome of gutsy? I mean, I'd
> bet my money on 3way draw. I am afraid it is AGF, if I am not there. I
> cannot see FGI, do you want to clarify your prediction?
It's really too early to call, and I was just trying to stir up trouble.
;^}
The German Army in Tyl makes AGF and IGF difficult, and AGF is
probably a little more likely, but if Steve trusts Rod too much, or you
don't mount a quick defense of your Home Centers, Rod has the
potential to Solo.
> What comes to level of communication (or lack of it) in eastern parts of
> the map, I feel bad. I assume that you are pointing your finger at me.
Actually more Keith. I realize that AT is hard to make work, but especially
as Austria I think you HAVE to talk to everybody and do it often. I just
got nothing to work with from Keith. We had time-zone problems that
made it difficult to have the email "conversation", that probably would have
been necessary to make IT work.
> I know I am not the most talkative person. I could give you excuses like
> time zones etc. but let's forget that. The bottomline is that this is my
> 4th partial press game. I have put myself into a tough company. I already
> feel that I am the next to go.
If you talk to Adam and AIR turn to face FG, you might be able to squeeze
Keith between you while defending against FG.
> About JDPR and your elimination: I would have loved to ally with you if
> you had had some other country or some other opinions of our co-operation.
> I admit that I am inexperienced and that made me reclutant to go for IT
> alliance. Still, the main reason was the 3-1 situation I had chance to
> join.
Yeah, I don't think I was eliminated because of my JDPR. Turkey is,
however, very hard to eliminate once it gets to 6 or 7 Centers, so I
think the, "If we let him grow, we'll face a monster in the mid-game!"
factor carried more weight, due to my JDPR. I, theoretically, have the
ability to take a strong mid-game position to a win or draw, so there
was good reason to target me early
.
> Like I said, I would have loved to see you as a leader of some other
> country. Your press made sense and you could tell the reasons why you
> wanted something. It was sad that I had the chance of my life to get you
> out of the map. Afterall it is hard to ally as Italy and Turkey.
It is unusual, but it really can work. I played Turkey in an IT alliance
that lasted until F1906 with Italy having Por, Spa, Mar, Par and Bel,
with a Fleet in the Irish Sea, and I was in Munich. (I stabbed him for
role-playing reasons, rather than for tactical or strategic ones, but we
could have gone on for several more years certainly.) My advice to
you is, if someone makes sense, and can give you good reasons for
wanting something, ally with him, even if the alliance seems unusual.
You'll get farther, faster that way, especially since the other Powers
won't expect the alliance.
> I hope I can send you a note every now and then. It would be also
> nice if you had time to reply. If nothing else maybe you want to
> further my downfall with bad advise :-)
Sure. I'll write to anyone who writes to me. 8-) I have trouble
giving bad advice, though. ;^} ("advise" is a verb, meaning to
reccomend, or to give advice; "advice" is the noun.)
Eric.
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:16 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Germany and Austria in
'gutsy':
Hi Steve and Keith,
> Thanks Raine for re-opening the AGI possibilities. From where I sit, I'd
> love to see it, but I'm a touch concerned that I would end up facing France
> all by myself.
??? I am going to defend against France no matter what we agree of
AGI. When I have the chance to turn my defence to offense I will. France
is a threat to me. AFG is my pananoia at the moment.
> I'm willing to order Tyr - Pie and I'm also willing to order Mun - Bur,
> Edi - Bel and Kie - Ruh, but I need to see Nap - Tyn with support from
> Tunis.
What would you like to see happening to Tyrolia in that scenario? I am
going to support myself to Tys don't worry. Tyr-Pie is what I am afraid.
I think there is a AFG alliance as long as I see the evidence that there
isn't. So Tyr-Pie would be a nightmare. FG has been solid so far so I try
to break that by concentrating on France. I cannot raise my finger against
Keith and why should I? I cannot tease you as Germany so that leaves me
with France.
> Also, I'd like to see you two trade Bulgaria and Greece. This might slow
> you down by one season, but once it happens, you both have stable positions
> to attack Rod and Adam. If Italy takes Greece and Austria takes Bulgaria,
> AGI will follow.
I could also say 'if this and that' then AGI will follow. NO, I won't say
so. It ain't my style to make demands. Steve why you want to slow us down
by one season? Austria 6 SC's, Italy SC's and Germany 7 SC's. Shouldn't we
(GI) slow down to make sure Austria gets even?
I dare to say that Rod will move 'fairly likely' as Rod would say it:
Wes s Mao-Naf
Mao-Naf
Mar-Lyo
Gas-Mar
Iri-Mao
You should know what France is doing by know. You have been almost married
so you should know what he is going to do. Take advantage of that.
Keith wrote:
------------
> Instead of moving Kie-Ruh, Mun-Bur, Tyr-Pie, why not move Kie-Hol,
> Mun-Ruh
> and Tyr-Mun? This seems like a better plan all around. It will be
> interesting to see if you convince France to not move Lvp-Edi this year,
> or perhaps you have already arranged with him to exchange Belgium for
> Edinburgh.
I would love this scenario. That would ease my fears of AFG. Steve? You
would get Belgium and Edi would remain yours. You can slow AI down by
giving Nwy to Russia. One build to Russia and it will certainly slow AI
down.
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:17 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria and Germany in
'gutsy':
Hi Keith and Steve,
> I appreciate your suggestions; I'd be very happy with armies in Bel, Hol,
> Ruh, and Mun. My one concern there is that I might be in a situation with
> Austrian armies in Boh and Tyr and a French army in Burgundy. If that were
> to happen, I'd be unable to protect Munich.
If this happnes I am willing to punish Keith. I am serious. I mean, I am
100% sure that AGI is the best I can get at the moment. I don't want to
see it ruined. Steve let me know what is the proper act I can do to punish
Keith IF he does such a naughty thing?
> My I suggest instead that I order Tyr S Ven - Pie, Mun - Bur, Kie - Ruh, and
> Edi - Bel? That way it takes two AI units to kick me out of Tyrolia and I'd
> have a shot at taking Bur (or at least keeping it open). I'd also have a
> retreat open in Bohemia. In the fall, I'm willing to order Nth - Eng.
I fear AFG. With my armies in Pie and Ven it leaves AFG a chance to take
Venice from me :-( I prefer Tyr-Mun and I WILL punish the one of you who
will ruin AGI.
> Rod's promised me that Paris will hold and that Gas with move to Mar; any
> advantage AGI has is based on Munich getting into Burgundy. If I don't
> think that will happen, I'm better off playing FGR for a while longer. I
> hope you both understand.
I understand this from FR perspective. Not sure if I got your point, I
mean what is better in FGR than in AGI where I am the Punisher (you know
the comic?) if Keith is moving Vie-Boh and Tri-Tyr. Also you should
support Adam to Nwy to slow AI down. Adam should be grateful to you and
it shouldn't be too hard to get him to attack AI.
> The other option is that I hold Edi, move Kie - Ruh, order Mun - Bur and
> hope I get support for Tyr into Pie. If we choose that option, I'd also
> order Swe - Nwy with support from North and move Den - Hel. In the fall,
> I'd take Belgium, keep Edi, and Raine and I could work against Rod.
I will work against Rod no matter what we agree.
> If I do that, though, I would insist on some sort of DMZ in the central
> territories. Since I'd be committing against *both* France and Russia, I
> would really need some more talk between us as well.
I am willing to agree DMZ in Tyrolia. In fact I can say that Tyrolia is
demilitarized by Italy right away. I have no interests to that territory.
Keith are you with me? Steve are you with me? Do you want more
DMZ's? Bohemia? I'll DMZ Bohemia too. This is easy one. I would have hard
times to get there via Tri and Vie :-) I would love to leave it so that
we agree that Tyr OR Boh is free. At least for next moves. That should do
the trick of keeping Mun safe.
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:19 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
> Hi, I have a proposal. Italy is going to need another fleet to defend
> against France. Would you be willing to move your fleet from Ankara to
> Rumania and let Italy take Ankara? You would be no worse off than now,
> and having your fleet in Rumania will go a long way towards creating a
> peaceful situation between us.
I think this kind of thing would require way more trust
than I can afford to give, especially after the shockingly
well executed deception of last autumn. I move to Bla
and have Ukr, Sev, Bla on Rum while you move to Bud and
support from Bud and Ser in the fall. I'm down one Ank
and nobody claims Rum.
I think you're wrong about me being able to force Rum this
year as well. If I'd disbanded StP instead of Bla then
you'd be right, but support from Ser alone this spring
will keep Rum Austrian, and the same move will work in
the fall under any circumstance I can figure out. Even
Raine couldn't cut Ser's support for me if he wanted
to.
Adam........
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:22 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Germany and France in 'gutsy':
> Yeah, I know. Raine is getting desperate, and Keith seems to think
> you're going to move into Pie.
Keith has been telling me that Steve is planning to help
France against Italy and isn't a real threat to Austria
for a while now. Your lies seem to be working Steve,
whatever you're saying.
> Retreating to Pie is another possibility, though the
> unit would then be committed to helping me against Italy
> rather than you against Austria.
It looks to me as though the fight against Italy is in
less desperate need of units, but that could easily
be my bias showing I guess. If it looks like trouble
in the F/I fight then it could use useful I suppose.
I think Raine will probably hope to move Ven to Pie
anyway this spring though, covering Ven from Rom.
I doubt a retreat to Pie will be possible.
> He could sucker you with Ser S Rum and Gal-Ukr, so Bla-Rum
> fails and Raine takes Ank and you're down one.
I don't believe him for a second anyway, I'm not giving
up on Ank quite that easily.
> > I'd have thought a french fleet in Tys would be possible by the fall
>
> Raine can defend either Tys or Tun, so I have to outguess him.
That's assuming he moves Aeg to Ion. From what he's said to
me he's not even sure he's going to do that. If he doesn't,
you can get both! I think he will in the end though.
> Even if War-Gal succeeds, you still won't get Rum if he
> retreats to Bud and orders two supports for Rum in the Fall.
> I think taking Rum this year is a long shot either way, whereas
> you can guarantee Gal. I'd rather take the sure thing now while Steve is
> still able to tap Vie, and hope to leverage your position in Gal
> (and your new A Mos) next year.
Yeah, I think that'll be for the best. Keith confused me when
he asserted that I could force Rum anyway, I think he's just
making it up to try and talk me out of Ank. Nice try I guess.
Adam............
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:25 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hey Raine,
What kind of thing did you think you might need to press me
about at the last minute? I can't really see how we can do
anything other than sit and wait in Turkey and we don't
have enough units elsewhere to co-operate unless you are
prepared to take Gre, which you can't even guarentee anymore.
I think I will order Ank - Con, just to force you to keep Con
where it is, or at least to avoid you having two units on Ank in
the fall. That's not agression, it's just to be safe, okay?
Adam........
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:26 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
> What kind of thing did you think you might need to press me
> about at the last minute?
I just wanted to know if we are able to make last minute exchange of
information and then move accordingly.
> I think I will order Ank - Con, just to force you to keep Con
> where it is, or at least to avoid you having two units on Ank in
> the fall. That's not agression, it's just to be safe, okay?
I understand and I won't treat it as an aggressive move.
France tells me that GR will attack Austria, will you confirm? That would
be great if we think of GRI triple. I understand if you don't want to
reveal it to me.
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:27 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
> Here is the plan that I propose. This turn, we make the following moves:
>
> Spring
>
> Italy: Nap-Tys, Tun S Nap-Tys, Con-Smy, Bul-Con, Aeg S Bul-Con
> Austria: Gre-Ion
>
> France will move Mid-Naf, Wes S Mid-Naf, Iri-Mid, Mar-Lyo, Gas-Mar
>
> Fall
>
> Italy: Tun-Tys, Tys-Wes, Smy-Ank, Con S Smy-Ank, Aeg-Gre
> Austria: Ion S Tun-Tys, Ser-Bul
>
> (Note the swapping of Greece for Bulgaria.)
Keith I will put my future on your hands. But I agree your proposal. Or
let's work with this plan untill we hear more of Steve's intentions.
I will need to go down town now but I'll be online later. I am also going
to be online at deadline. Just to let you know.
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:36 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
> I just wanted to know if we are able to make last minute exchange of
> information and then move accordingly.
Well, just to confirm again, almost certainly not.
I'm going home in about two hours and then will
check my email less frequently until the last
time before the deadline in about eight or nine
hours.
> I understand and I won't treat it as an aggressive move.
Thank you.
> France tells me that GR will attack Austria, will you confirm? That would
> be great if we think of GRI triple. I understand if you don't want to
> reveal it to me.
This is what I'm hoping for, it's just about my only
chance now, but it's still a slim chance and I
won't be entirely convinced until it's happened,
possibly not even then. I've gotten so used to
people refusing to attack Austria that it's
hard to believe it when they say they might :)
Adam..........
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:38 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Turkey in 'gutsy':
Hi Eric,
> My advice to
> you is, if someone makes sense, and can give you good reasons for
> wanting something, ally with him, even if the alliance seems unusual.
Let me clarify. It wasn't the unusual alliance. It was the good
opportunity to do something else. Also when someone can explain his
intentions in a sensible way it ain't always enough if the intentions are
not good from my point of view.
In your registration it says Harrisburg. Is it where the nuclear power
plant is?
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:44 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
> This is what I'm hoping for, it's just about my only
> chance now, but it's still a slim chance and I
> won't be entirely convinced until it's happened,
> possibly not even then.
But Steve has promised Nwy to you, right? Is he now reclutant to give you
the needed support? To me he says that he wants to slow Austria's grow. It
would suit well to give you Nwy to that plan.
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:45 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
> "Laughter is the best medicine."
Ok, I'll laugh to you when you attack against me :-)
> > I need to increase my unattractiveness.
>
> That is not something that one normally hears from someone. :-)
Still, I mean it :-)
> What GR tell me is that they hope to cooperate against Austria, but of course
> I can't really be certain.
There is no problem if GR attacks Austria. My problem is you :-)
> > I have been concentrating to get Steve to attack you naturally.
>
> That's probably your best bet - but I hope you don't succeed. (Sorry!) :-)
It seems like I won't succeed :-( I'll continue trying :-)
Just in case Germany attacks you I want to tell you that I am on your side
after your fleets are back in Atlantic.
Raine
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:46 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
> But Steve has promised Nwy to you, right? Is he now reclutant to give you
> the needed support? To me he says that he wants to slow Austria's grow. It
> would suit well to give you Nwy to that plan.
Yeah, they SAY that they're comming to help me, but - perhaps
because I was lied to so effectively last fall - I'm not sure
if I believe it or not. I think it's in their best interests,
but then I thought it was in your best interest about two
or three years ago too. Didn't seem to make much difference
then.
Adam........
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:50 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
I don't know what Italy seems so upset about. Obviously I don't feel the
same way.
Perhaps we could bounce in Bohemia (Tyr-Boh), and I could dislodge you,
and you could retreat to Munich. Would this ease your fears?
I understand that you don't want two of my units surrounding Munich. I
hope that you can understand why I don't want your unit in Tyrolia
adjacent to two of my home supply centers.
Austria
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:54 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
Okay, I don't like it that you eel deceived. I didn't expect to get
Rumania last year, but in the end I felt I trusted Italy enough that I
should try. It became very clear that France was going to move Mid-Wes.
Let me know if there's any way you think we can work together, especially
if Germany does not do as you would like him to. I know he says hs will
attack me, but this seems far-fetched to me, and it is what you might
expect him to tell you (since he knows that you are close to France).
Austria
From - Thu Nov 01 16:56:59 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
I've been trying to think of an easy way to trade Edi/Bel that keeps us both comfortable
during the transition. I suppose you'd like me to stay out of Eng/Pic/Bur, which is
certainly reasonable, but I'm not comfortable with leaving them all open when you
plan to have units in Nth/Bel/Mun.
I propose that we maintain the DMZs in Pic/Bur/Ruh, and that we also select one of
the following:
1) I move Iri-Eng while you do Edi-Bel, then we negotiate withdrawals.
2) I stay out of Eng and you convoy to Hol, then we discuss the moves of F Nth and
A Hol for the Fall.
I prefer the latter, because it keeps some space between our units and gives you more
flexibility in the Fall. I will enter my orders in accordance with #2. If you prefer
some other plan, please let me know as soon as possible.
Rod
From - Thu Nov 01 16:57:14 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
> Okay, I don't like it that you eel deceived. I didn't expect to get
> Rumania last year, but in the end I felt I trusted Italy enough that I
> should try. It became very clear that France was going to move Mid-Wes.
Well, you had insisted to me that you couldn't trust Italy
enough to accept my support into Bul. That you then turned
out to trust him enough to take Rum - and you should have known
you'd get it really - I'd call deceit, yeah. Not that a little
decit is neccasarily a bad thing, I tend to try and limit
it to one time per player per game personally. I know not
everyone sticks to my rule - including me.
> Let me know if there's any way you think we can work together, especially
> if Germany does not do as you would like him to. I know he says hs will
> attack me, but this seems far-fetched to me, and it is what you might
> expect him to tell you (since he knows that you are close to France).
Well, we will find out this spring for sure what he intends to
do. Reguardless of whether he's attacking you, attacking me,
or rescuing me from disaster, I still think that the way
FG are working I'll find myself better off if we can end
up with you and I in Germany rather than Germany in Austria
or Russia. If not then the best I can hope for is to be a
small power which Germany will at least try to take in
the end for a solo. That's as good as elimination, but
I'd sooner get a draw. I think a draw with me in it will
be more likely with a weak Germany than a strong one.
However, it's really not going to be easy to work with
you, there just aren't any centers in my reach except
Austrian ones. If you won't take Italian ones and
let me have at least Rum back then I don't know how
we can work together.
I don't expect it, but if I'm wrong and we can then I
guess Rumania would be Russian at the end of the year.
I'll move sev there this spring, we'll see how we go
on from there.
Adam.......
From - Thu Nov 01 19:47:20 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
> Well, you had insisted to me that you couldn't trust Italy
> enough to accept my support into Bul. That you then turned
> out to trust him enough to take Rum - and you should have known
> you'd get it really - I'd call deceit, yeah. Not that a little
> decit is neccasarily a bad thing, I tend to try and limit
> it to one time per player per game personally. I know not
> everyone sticks to my rule - including me.
What I told you was true. Italy *was* going to try to take Greece, but he
changed his mind, and so I changed my mind. The deceit, I suppose, came
in that I did not tell you when I had changed my mind.
By my count, this is the first deceit I have used in this game. It would
seem we were even, no? (And you deserved it because you started it.)
> Well, we will find out this spring for sure what he intends to
> do. Reguardless of whether he's attacking you, attacking me,
> or rescuing me from disaster, I still think that the way
> FG are working I'll find myself better off if we can end
> up with you and I in Germany rather than Germany in Austria
> or Russia. If not then the best I can hope for is to be a
> small power which Germany will at least try to take in
> the end for a solo. That's as good as elimination, but
> I'd sooner get a draw. I think a draw with me in it will
> be more likely with a weak Germany than a strong one.
I agree with you.
> However, it's really not going to be easy to work with
> you, there just aren't any centers in my reach except
> Austrian ones. If you won't take Italian ones and
> let me have at least Rum back then I don't know how
> we can work together.
Okay, it looks like we are far apart on some issues here. I will assume
that we are at war until we decide otherwise. Fair enough?
Austria
From - Thu Nov 01 19:47:22 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
> By my count, this is the first deceit I have used in this game. It would
> seem we were even, no? (And you deserved it because you started it.)
Even, sure, but both fairly distrustful of the other.
Not a good situation, but also not one we can do anything
about.
> Okay, it looks like we are far apart on some issues here. I will assume
> that we are at war until we decide otherwise. Fair enough?
Fair, sure, but it's not very constructive. I'm sure
you see why Ank - Bla - Rum isn't likely to work very
well. It requires an extordinary amount of trust on
my part for essentially no gain, I just end up with
a unit in Rum rather than Ank, and Rum would be
less easily defended with current unit positions
too. Aparently you are not prepared to let me
retake Rum. Is it just the idea of an army in Rum
which you find distasteful, or is the idea
of taking Bul back from italy also problematic for
you? If Germany does give me Norway back this
fall then a build in Sev could be a fleet which
could eventually go into Rum. This isn't the best
way to fight Germany, of course, but if it enabled
peace between us then it may be worth considering.
Esepcially if this would then allow you to
consider taking Bul from Raine. Or is the threat
of France too much for you? From what I can see,
the threat of a solo from France is the only way
we will be able to convince Germany to attack him
so I don't mind Raine loosing some ground at all,
I'm surprised that you do.
Adam............
From - Thu Nov 01 20:06:34 2001
Message from rkyonkoski at att.net as Master to Turkey and Italy in 'gutsy':
Raine:
I know that Achilles was defeated via the heel of his foot and not the
sole. I was merely trying to cover for my mistakenly typing sole
instead of soul. It was a poor attempt at humor. OK, a very poor
attempt at humor.
Sorry for any confusion.
Roger
From - Thu Nov 01 22:08:21 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
I understand your need to feel comfortable with Bel; I myself want that army
off the island because I just can't *do* anything with it up there except
attack you. In Belgium, at least, I can move it east next year.
If you're willing to DMZ pic/bur/ruh, I have no problem with you ordering
iri-eng while we make this transition. Thanks for making the proposal.
BTW, the only reason I want to do the convoy now is so that we can free up
eng and nth in the fall. Does that make sense?
Regarding the east, I've pretty much committed to option #2 I outlined
yesterday. It doesn't really threaten Austria too much, but it does give
Adam the upper hand for the fall.
Raine, BTW, is all over the place in his negotiations. I think A and I are
feeling in a bit of a pinch. Also, Adam does need tactical supervision from
time to time and I think he trusts your suggestions more because you are not
immediate neighbors.
If we do the DMZs we just discussed, what will your continental armies
order? Is gas - mar and par h okay with you?
Thanks. Write if you'd like; I'll be here for a bit.
- Steve
From - Thu Nov 01 22:08:23 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
Sorry I've been so pre-occupied with other stuff, but that's bound to happen
a couple of times during a game like this. Oh well; my fault.
Honestly, Adam, I think you, Rod, and I have a decent relationship going. I
don't expect Rod to jump on me, but he might while it looks like you and I
have pretty much the same interests at heart here. The sooner you grow in
the south, the sooner I can get a build out of Norway. I'm not trying to
push the issue; I'm reasonably comfortable with my position so as long as
you're making decent progress against Keith, I'm willing to hold back.
So...orders:
I'll at least order tyr - vie. I also like mun - sil and kie - mun (option
#2 I described yesterday). Or, I could order mun - boh instead. If you get
this before going to bed tonight, drop me a note. Thanks.
Also, I think Raine might try to spin his units to get two against ank in
the fall. It might be worth you ordering ank - con. Just a though.
- Steve
From - Thu Nov 01 22:08:24 2001
Message from Elladan915 at netzero.net as Turkey to Italy in 'gutsy':
> In your registration it says Harrisburg. Is it where the nuclear power
> plant is?
Three Mile Island, yes.
E.
From - Thu Nov 01 22:08:27 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
> In Belgium, at least, I can move it east next year.
That's why I suggested Edi-Hol - it gets the army east even quicker.
However, it would commit F Nth to Nth-Bel in the Fall. If you have
other plans for the fleet (or just prefer to "secure" Bel this season)
then Edi-Bel is better.
> If you're willing to DMZ pic/bur/ruh, I have no problem with you ordering
> iri-eng while we make this transition.
Thanks. I will do so.
> BTW, the only reason I want to do the convoy now is so that we can free up
> eng and nth in the fall. Does that make sense?
Yes. What do you intend for F Nth in the Fall?
> Regarding the east, I've pretty much committed to option #2 I outlined
> yesterday.
Sounds good!
> Raine, BTW, is all over the place in his negotiations.
His press to me is along the line of "Uh, stop attacking me and I'll be
your friend." ;-)
> If we do the DMZs we just discussed, what will your continental armies
> order? Is gas - mar and par h okay with you?
Yes. I have ordered Gas-Mar, Par H.
Rod
From - Thu Nov 01 22:28:24 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
In case you happen to get up before the moves process, I am ordering
Gre-Ion as planned. I'm also supporting myself to Tyrolia, and I am
assuming that you are moving Rom-Ven and Ven-Pie.
Austria
From - Thu Nov 01 22:28:28 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hi, I haven't heard from you in a while. I am going to dislodge
Tyrolia. I won't move to Bohemia, so you should feel safe. I am
assuming that Italy does not want you to move to Piedmont.
Good luck if you decide to move against France. He does not seem
suspicious that you would attack him and in fact reported that you had
told him you were going to attack me. Of course that is what I expect
you would tell him, just as Russia expects you to attack me.
Russia and France seem close, though I suspect France is the controlling
partner in the relationship. You shouldn't have to worry about Russia.
Even though he has three armies he pretty much has to keep them where
they are just to defend himself. Only if he is able to build will he
have some flexibility.
Austria
From - Thu Nov 01 22:28:30 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
I am not willing to attack Italy right now. Italy is going to need my
help as it is to hold back France, and I don't think that Germany is
going to attack France. I will not gain enough centers from Italy from
an attack to strengthen me enough to withstand both France and Germany.
I fear I would get crushed between them, and you if Germany doesn't
attack you (though I think it is more likely that Germany will attack you
than France--I hope you are campaigning with Germany to have him move west).
I don't think Germany will attack me despite what he is telling you,
because it is not in his interests to be surrounded by both a strong
Russia and strong France like he is. Right now with your three armies,
you can defend yourself pretty well, but you can't really move against
Germany without exposing yourself. If you get another army, then Germany
has to start getting concerned.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:47 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
> > If you're willing to DMZ pic/bur/ruh, I have no problem with you ordering
> > iri-eng while we make this transition.
>
> Thanks. I will do so.
BTW, I'm having second thoughts. The fleet is potentially more useful
against Italy if I move it to MAO right away, so I think I'll just
suppress my paranoia and move Iri-MAO. :-)
Rod
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:50 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
> BTW, I'm having second thoughts. The fleet is potentially more
> useful against Italy if I move it to MAO right away, so I think
> I'll just suppress my paranoia and move Iri-MAO. :-)
Thanks; I think that's your best move and it's certainly what I want to see.
Paranoia only helps when the other guy is paranoid too. Been there, done
that; both of us I suspect. :)
The press I've received from AI has convinced me that FGR will do very well.
The best Keith can come up with is "Watch out for Russia. He and France are
talking a lot." Raine is saying the same thing, but not as often and with a
Finnish accent. LOL (at least I thought that was funny.) :)
I'm willing to do whatever makes sense to transition our border to a
peaceful one. I'm sure we'll talk more about this later, but I have no
doubt we'll work this through.
For now, though, I'll convoy edi to bel and move kie/mun/tyr as we
discussed. If Keith does what he says he will, both Adam and I will be in a
very good position in the fall.
In the fall, I'm willing to stand down from the North Sea as long as there's
no chance for either you or Adam to take it while I'm not looking. That
last part (Adam specifically) is the only reason I'd hesitate at all.
Thanks.
- Steve
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:52 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
If you are there, I would like to talk more with you. I am not at all
satisfied with the diploming, yet. Germany hasn't replied via press to AI.
Neither had you. I feel uncomfortable.
You don't want support to your move to Tyrolia 'cause you don't tell me
which one is attacking? I told you that I'll throw a coin of Rom/Ven
action. In case of holding I could support you.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:53 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hi Steve,
No answers are usually signal of troubles :-( I was hoping to get a reply
to my press to AG. If you are there could you send me a note, please (I
mean before the deadline).
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:54 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria and Germany in
'gutsy':
Hi Keith, Steve,
I am dissapointed. I got no replies to my press to you. I have to assume
the worst.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:55 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
> If you are there, I would like to talk more with you. I am not at all
> satisfied with the diploming, yet. Germany hasn't replied via press to AI.
> Neither had you. I feel uncomfortable.
Yes, I am here, for a while anyway. I did respond with press to IG, and
you responsed to it. Germany has not contacted me in a day. I think he
was not satisfied with the progress of the negotations. Hopefully he
will still attack France, but I'm not counting on it. He seemed like he
was trying to by sneaky about something, but I'm not sure what.
> You don't want support to your move to Tyrolia 'cause you don't tell me
> which one is attacking? I told you that I'll throw a coin of Rom/Ven
> action. In case of holding I could support you.
I guess it doesn't matter which move you do. If you are going to support
me, support Tri-Tyr. I would think you wouldn't want Germany in
Piedmont, but it might not be a big deal. There are far worse places he
could put that army, as far as I'm concerned.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:57 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Oh, I see what press you were referring to. No, I didn't reapond to
that. It seemed to be directed primarily at Germany. I have tried to
convince Germany that I wouldn't move to Bohemia. This was what he was
worried about.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:47:58 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
I am happy to hear from you. Germany has been silent after he went to
trick or treat trip. I assume he is against us. There is a minimum chance
that he has been away from net and is still working with us but I wouldn't
count on that.
Your move Gre-Ion forces me to work with you. I have no problems with
that. It would be too late to change it anyway. I will be counting on your
help a lot. It would be a disaster if you decided to work with France.
Russia tells me that he is not sure to get German help against you.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:03 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
> I am happy to hear from you. Germany has been silent after he went to
> trick or treat trip. I assume he is against us. There is a minimum chance
> that he has been away from net and is still working with us but I wouldn't
> count on that.
Yes, I assume the same thing. He specifically told me he would be back
online today, so I am assuming that he is intentionally ignoring us.
> Your move Gre-Ion forces me to work with you. I have no problems with
> that. It would be too late to change it anyway. I will be counting on your
> help a lot. It would be a disaster if you decided to work with France.
Don't worry, I don't want your supply centers. There is a price to pay
for my help though. I will need your help against Russia. Once you get
Ankara in the Fall, I am hoping you can move Ank-Arm and perhaps even
consider Con-Bla.
I would actually rather have my fleet East instead of in the Ionian, but
I think it is important that you get another supply center, and that
Russia loses one.
> Russia tells me that he is not sure to get German help against you.
Yes, he can't be sure. Both France and Russia have reported that Germany
is going to attack me, but it is not unexpected that Germany would say
this. I can't imagine that he would attack me, but we'll see. He could
try to move to Bohemia in conjunction with a Russian attack, but I think
I can withstand such a joint attack for a turn or two. I would prefer to
have another army, of course.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:04 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
> Yes, I assume the same thing. He specifically told me he would be back
> online today, so I am assuming that he is intentionally ignoring us.
Yes, he said he will wrote to us (in his press to AI).
> Don't worry, I don't want your supply centers. There is a price to pay
> for my help though. I will need your help against Russia. Once you get
> Ankara in the Fall, I am hoping you can move Ank-Arm and perhaps even
> consider Con-Bla.
I can't help myself and I am worried. I am willing to pay the price for
your goodwill. If there is no goodwill there ain't nothing to pay for.
> I would actually rather have my fleet East instead of in the Ionian, but
> I think it is important that you get another supply center, and that
> Russia loses one.
In the end I would love it also i.e. to see your fleet in east (or even
more preferable would be to dispand it and change it to an army).
> Yes, he can't be sure. Both France and Russia have reported that Germany
> is going to attack me, but it is not unexpected that Germany would say
> this. I can't imagine that he would attack me, but we'll see. He could
> try to move to Bohemia in conjunction with a Russian attack, but I think
> I can withstand such a joint attack for a turn or two. I would prefer to
> have another army, of course.
In that scenario you can count on my help. I cannot see the reason why
Germany would attack you. I also cannot see the reason why Germany would
like to ally with FR and not with AI. Well, I can but I can see better
reasons to attack France and to ally with AI.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:05 2001
:: Judge: NZMB Game: Gutsy Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: S1905M Fri Nov 02 2001 20:00:00 +1300
Movement results for Spring of 1905. (gutsy.017)
Austria: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Galicia -> Rumania.
Austria: Army Galicia -> Rumania.
Austria: Fleet Greece -> Ionian Sea.
Austria: Army Trieste -> Tyrolia.
Austria: Army Rumania -> Ukraine.
Austria: Army Vienna SUPPORT Army Trieste -> Tyrolia.
England: Fleet Norway -> North Sea. (*bounce*)
France: Army Gascony -> Marseilles.
France: Army Liverpool -> Edinburgh.
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> North Africa.
France: Army London HOLD.
France: Fleet Irish Sea -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> North Africa.
France: Army Paris HOLD.
France: Fleet Marseilles -> Gulf of Lyon.
Germany: Army Edinburgh -> North Sea -> Belgium.
Germany: Army Kiel -> Munich.
Germany: Fleet Sweden HOLD.
Germany: Army Tyrolia -> Vienna. (*bounce, dislodged*)
Germany: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Edinburgh -> Belgium.
Germany: Fleet Denmark HOLD.
Germany: Army Munich -> Silesia.
Italy: Army Constantinople -> Smyrna.
Italy: Army Venice SUPPORT Austrian Army Trieste -> Tyrolia.
Italy: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) -> Constantinople.
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) -> Constantinople.
Italy: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Fleet Naples -> Tyrrhenian Sea.
Italy: Army Rome SUPPORT Army Venice.
Italy: Fleet Naples -> Tyrrhenian Sea.
Russia: Army Ukraine -> Galicia.
Russia: Fleet Ankara -> Constantinople. (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (north coast) SUPPORT English Fleet Norway. (*void*)
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Ukraine -> Galicia.
Russia: Army Sevastopol -> Rumania. (*bounce*)
The following units were dislodged:
The German Army in Tyrolia can retreat to Bohemia or Piedmont.
The next phase of 'gutsy' will be Retreats for Spring of 1905.
The deadline for orders will be Sat Nov 03 2001 19:02:58 +1300.
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:07 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hmm... there has to be a slight change of plan. Given Russia's position,
I need to use Serbia to protect Rumania, so we can't swap Greece and
Bulgaria this turn. I actually might suggest Aeg-Con, and Con-Ank. What
do you think?
Against France, I still think the best move is to defend Tys, either by
my simply supporting it with Ion, or by my supporting Tun-Tys while you
move Tys-Wes. In the worst case, if France supports Wes-Tun, then he
will be able to go no further. With the build you will get from Ankara,
he won't be able to make any progress against you.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:08 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
I can't decide whether I am in a worse position than before the moves, or
a better position. What do you think?
One thing is for certain: we are more entangled now than ever.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:09 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
By the way, Germany's plan in helping you against me is undoubtly
designed to make sure that he gets Moscow and Warsaw, and not me. I
don't think he wants you to survive. Still, I realize you don't really
have a lot of options right now, so no hard feelings.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:10 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
Hey! What's the big idea moving to Vienna? I don't recall that being
part of the plan. I can't decide now whether I am in a worse position or
a better position than before the moves. What do you think?
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:11 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to France in 'gutsy':
Germany's moves undoubtly are aimed to make sure that he gets Warsaw and
Moscow and not me. Do you think he is counting your centers for a
victory? You seem to be quite vulnerable to a stab from Germany now,
with all your forces tied up against Italy.
That said, I don't particularly want to see you move anything against
Germany. I'm in a quite vulnerable position myself, and I would be
afraid that Italy would take advantage of me.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:14 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
I am not in a hurry to change Gre/Bul. We can do it when the time is
better.
> Bulgaria this turn. I actually might suggest Aeg-Con, and Con-Ank. What
> do you think?
That is one possibility for sure. Let me look at the map more. I am afraid
of retreat to Boh and that you'll lose Vienna.
> Against France, I still think the best move is to defend Tys, either by
> my simply supporting it with Ion, or by my supporting Tun-Tys while you
> move Tys-Wes. In the worst case, if France supports Wes-Tun, then he
> will be able to go no further. With the build you will get from Ankara,
> he won't be able to make any progress against you.
I'll talk with France and try to figure out his intentions. Your
suggestion makes sense.
I think Norway will be Russian. FG can't let Russia to fall too quickly.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:15 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
Well, there's really no point in talking at all
if you're going to lie every single move.
Adam.........
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:16 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
> Well, there's really no point in talking at all
> if you're going to lie every single move.
I told you that I am not going to make any deals with you until I here
until removal question is solved. I told you that I am not going to
promise anything.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:17 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
On Thu, Nov 01, 2001 at 06:39:51AM +1300, you wrote:
> There is! You can be sure of at least neutral Italy if you do not move
> Sev-Arm. I am going to NOT move further east. I repeat I am not trying to
> take Ankara from you. I can not affort it.
> Adam I have previously moved the way you did not like but I haven't lied
> to you. Now I willl promise you that I wont' move Aeg-Con and Con-Smy.
Whatever.
Adam..........
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:18 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Russia in 'gutsy':
Adam,
Look at my mails in cronological order. After this:
> Adam I have previously moved the way you did not like but I haven't lied
> to you. Now I willl promise you that I wont' move Aeg-Con and Con-Smy.
I told you that I won't promise anything to you or Keith due to the
different stories according to your builds. It bothered me a lot that one
of you had told me something else than the truth.
Raine
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:19 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
I'd say you're in a better position, very good odds on
you taking Mos or Sev this year. Not much chance of Italy
stabbing you, I'm bound to lose Sev now anyway.
> By the way, Germany's plan in helping you against me is undoubtly
> designed to make sure that he gets Moscow and Warsaw, and not me.
For sure, but at least he has a plan. Your plan for
helping me seemed to be for Italy to take my supply
centers.
> I don't think he wants you to survive.
Of course he doesnt. He'll be wanting a solo in an ideal
world. The key is to hope France can grow quickly enough that
he will need to turn there to stop a solo.
> Still, I realize you don't really
> have a lot of options right now, so no hard feelings.
Hard feelings? It's just a game.
Adam..........
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:20 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
>I'm bound to lose Sev now anyway.
Ank, I meant Ank.
Adam..............
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:30 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
> For sure, but at least he has a plan. Your plan for
> helping me seemed to be for Italy to take my supply
> centers.
I knew that Italy was going to take Ankara no matter what you did this
turn, and I felt that you had a pretty good chance of getting Rum, which
is why I asked you to move Ank-Bla-Rum.
I hope you don't feel like I was making bad suggestions for you. That's
not what I'm trying to do. Instead, I'm trying to make the best of a bad
situation. I can't always give you full information, but I wish you
would trust me.
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 13:48:30 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
Where do you think I should retreat to? If you can find the time this
afternoon I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.
- Steve
From - Fri Nov 02 15:09:21 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany
and Russia in 'gutsy':
Gentlemen,
Well, it's pretty clear (as if it weren't already) that AI are cooperating closely.
That makes things difficult for us, but I think we're still OK. If I guess right
against Raine and Adam guesses right against Keith, we should be in good shape.
As far as the retreat from Tyl, I think choosing between Pie and Boh depends on the
Fall order for A Sil. If Tyl-Pie then Sil-Boh, or if Tyl-Boh then Sil-Gal ??
You can protect Mos with War-Mos, Sev-Mos, but then Sev is at risk. You can protect
Sev with War-Ukr, Gal-Rum, but then Mos is at risk. If you want to take the risk,
we could assume that Keith will expect you to bounce in Mos, and leave it open while
you do something else.
Ank will be lost, but if we can keep the fleet alive, it will be far more useful in
Bla anyway. Hopefully you will soon get Rum as recompense.
Rod
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:29 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France and Russia in 'gutsy':
Rod and Adam,
I'm going to retreat Tyr - Boh; I think that gives me a better position
against AI than Tyr - Pie. Adam and I still need to coordinate the fall
moves, but I'm fairly confident we will make good progress.
I know the mos/sev/rum situation looks like a 50/50, but I think the odds
are actually in Adam's favor. Really.
If Adam orders war - ukr, gal - rum, and sev s gal - rum, Keith can't get
Moscow without losing Rumania.
That set of moves *guarantees* a break even for Adam. Even if he loses Ank,
he'll take Norway. That means next spring he can cover St Pete from Norway
and use Bla to heckle Rumania or Bulgaria as appropriate. With Rod in the
Med, there's no way Raine can push his eastern position.
Please think about this a bit. In the spring, I'm willing to move my units
in whatever way is best for FGR. I know it's a little dicey for Adam right
now and we are all always afraid of a stab, but I don't see AI lasting that
much longer if we work together.
Please write when you can. Thanks.
- Steve
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:38 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Austria in 'gutsy':
> Hey! What's the big idea moving to Vienna? I don't
> recall that being part of the plan.
Yea, I know; you are a very good natured player. :) I figured that if you
we're dislodging me, I might as well cut your support and give Adam a
fighting chance in Gal/Rum. He's in *way* over his head, BTW.
My problem is that I really need a couple of his centers, but I can't let
him collapse too quickly. My other problem is that if I retreat to the
Piedmont, I place myself right in the middle of the FI fight. So, I've
decided to order Tyr - Boh.
I really can't make any guarantees right about now, but since Raine is so
concerned about an AFG, I'm tempted to give it to him. What do you think?
Write when you can. Thanks for the letter.
- Steve
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:39 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany
and Russia in 'gutsy':
> If Adam orders war - ukr, gal - rum, and sev s gal - rum, Keith can't get
> Moscow without losing Rumania.
What about Ser S Rum, Ukr-Mos?
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:40 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France and Russia in 'gutsy':
>> If Adam orders war - ukr, gal - rum, and sev s gal - rum, Keith can't get
>> Moscow without losing Rumania.
>
> What about Ser S Rum, Ukr-Mos?
Oh, duh...my fault. I still think gal - rum makes sense. Maybe you could
still bounce in Mos; it's unlikely Keith will order rum - sev, ukr s rum -
sev, ser - rum, right?
Is this what you suggested earlier Rod?
- Steve
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:41 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi Raine,
I owe you a response for 3 or 4 letters, but all I can do right now is
apologize. When I get the time, I'll response more completely.
Right now, if you are on-line, I'd like to know what you think I should do
with my retreat. I'm willing to go either way, but I'm inclined to order
tyr - boh.
Write if you can. Thanks.
- Steve
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:43 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany
and Russia in 'gutsy':
> > What about Ser S Rum, Ukr-Mos?
>
> Oh, duh...my fault. I still think gal - rum makes sense.
I agree.
> Maybe you could
> still bounce in Mos; it's unlikely Keith will order rum - sev, ukr s rum -
> sev, ser - rum, right?
That does seem unlikely, but to be sure you could throw in War-Ukr to guarantee the
safety of Sev - but this leaves Mos open. You could instead do War-Mos along with
Sev S Gal-Rum and just hope he doesn't try Ukr-War. Or Gal-Rum, War/Sev bounce in Mos -
but the clever Austrian response is Ukr S Sev-Mos, Rum-Sev, Ser-Rum.
Another possibility is a supported attack on Vie.
Rod
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:45 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia and
Germany in 'gutsy':
Gentlemen,
If we assume that Keith will not order Ukr-War, then War-Mos covers Mos.
Sev S Gal-Rum protects Sev unless Ukr S Rum-Sev, in which case Adam gets
Rum unless Ser-Rum, in which case Sil S Boh-Gal allows Gal to retreat
into Bud or Vie unless Vie-Bud, Tyr-Vie, in which case Mun-Tyr succeeds -
unless Ven-Tyr, in which case Mar-Pie succeeds!
Woo-hoo! It's the grand Master Plan!
Or maybe I've just been working too long. I think I'll start my weekend now. :-)
Rod
From - Fri Nov 02 21:21:46 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
> My problem is that I really need a couple of his centers, but I can't let
> him collapse too quickly. My other problem is that if I retreat to the
> Piedmont, I place myself right in the middle of the FI fight. So, I've
> decided to order Tyr - Boh.
Why can't you let Russia collapse too quickly? You can get Stp and Nwy
quickly, and have a good shot at Warsaw or Moscow before I could get
there. Even if I mananged to get one of them, I think the Italian
centers present a much better opportunity than Munich would. I'm sure
you could put up quite a defense with the three or four extra centers
you'd get from attacking Russia.
> I really can't make any guarantees right about now, but since Raine is so
> concerned about an AFG, I'm tempted to give it to him. What do you think?
I can't participate in that right now. Then I'd be facing Germany,
Russia *and* Italy. No thanks.
You have some expansion options, but France is going to get stalled in
Italy pretty soon (Italy is going to be able to build a new fleet). What
are you going to do then?
Austria
From - Fri Nov 02 21:32:04 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Austria in 'gutsy':
Okay, let's pretend for a second that a collapsing Russia is not such a bad
thing for me. What would that look like? If you did get a build this year,
would you be willing to build F Trieste? And, how would France respond?
Write if you can, but I probably won't be able to respond until Sunday.
Thanks.
- Steve
From - Sat Nov 03 08:19:33 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi Raine,
I think the game is at an important turning point. I've ordered a retreat
to Bohemia, but I'm not sure what to do in the fall.
My next center will either be Norway or Vienna or maybe even a French
center, but I need advice on what to do. You and I have been fairly open
with each other this game so I'm writing you first this turn. Plus, we
can't really do that much to hurt each other.
Rod and I have a good relationship right now so I'm unlikely to attack
France. On the other hand, I'm reluctant to attack Adam because I need a
strong Russia to to hold off Austria. I hope you understand my situation
and I also hope you understand that I will not attack you.
Just so you know, I suggested AFG to Keith and he said "no". I hope that
means you are safe from an Austrian attack.
If you have the time, I'd like to talk more. I'll be away most of the day
tomorrow, but I can certainly respond by Sunday.
Write when you can, but enjoy the weekend. Saturday is sauna day, right?
Talk to you later.
- Steve
From - Sat Nov 03 08:19:38 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
What do you think of Rod's suggestions? (move-wise I mean)
I'm sufficiently content with my current position (once the tyr - boh
retreat is in) that I'll follow whatever you suggest for the fall. I don't
expect to get a build this year but that's fine with me.
What I'd *like* to see is:
Germany:
mun - tyr
boh - vie
Russia:
gal s boh - vie
But, I suspect you have bigger fish to fry. Let me know how I can help;
write when you can.
Thanks.
- Steve
From - Sat Nov 03 08:19:40 2001
:: Judge: NZMB Game: Gutsy Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: S1905R Sat Nov 03 2001 19:02:58 +1300
Retreat orders for Spring of 1905. (gutsy.018)
Germany: Army Tyrolia -> Bohemia.
The next phase of 'gutsy' will be Movement for Fall of 1905.
The deadline for orders will be Tue Nov 06 2001 20:00:00 +1300.
