Fall 1913
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From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:40 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to France in 'gutsy':
Italy did not meet my demands. I am prepared to throw the game to you.
How would you like me to move? I think Germany may help too, but I'm not
certain about this.
Austria
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:44 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
Italy did not meet my demands. I'm prepared to throw the game now. How
about you?
Austria
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:49 2002
Message from tim at 9oakhill.com as Germany to Austria and France in 'gutsy':
>Italy did not meet my demands. I'm prepared to throw the game now. How
>about you?
Yep, I've already ordered LVN S STP-MOS
Tim
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:50 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
> >Italy did not meet my demands. I'm prepared to throw the game now. How
> >about you?
>
> Yep, I've already ordered LVN S STP-MOS
Okay, I will move Moscow.
Austria
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:52 2002
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Austria
and Germany in 'gutsy':
Gentlemen,
> >Italy did not meet my demands. I'm prepared to throw the game now. How
> >about you?
>
> Yep, I've already ordered LVN S STP-MOS
Sounds good! I guess I'll have to thank Raine for the solo. ;-)
Lvn S StP-Mos indeed sounds like the quickest way to 18. You'll have to order Mos
to move to preclude an unwanted support from Sev.
I'll probably still need Russia's cooperation; I can't force Mun and Ber while
protecting Mar/Spa without his help. I think he'll consent, but just in case
something goes awry, perhaps you should do Gal S Mos-Ukr in order to slow down
Italy as much as possible. That way I still have a shot at the win next year
if somebody fails to follow through this season.
Thanks for your help! :-)
Rod
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:53 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to France in 'gutsy':
> Sounds good! I guess I'll have to thank Raine for the solo. ;-)
>
> Lvn S StP-Mos indeed sounds like the quickest way to 18. You'll have to order
Mos to move to preclude an unwanted support from Sev.
>
> I'll probably still need Russia's cooperation; I can't force Mun and Ber while
protecting Mar/Spa without his help. I think he'll consent, but just in case
something goes awry, perhaps you should do Gal S Mos-Ukr in order to slow down
Italy as much as > possible. That way I still have a shot at the win next year
if somebody fails to follow through this season.
I will order Mos-Sev and Gal-Ukr. That should keep Italy out of the
Ukraine. Be careful with Russia, he might balk at the last minute.
Austria
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:54 2002
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia in
'gutsy':
Adam,
Austria and Germany both now claim that Italy has pissed them off enough that they
want me to win. I guess it would be more accurate to say that they just want Raine
to lose, but I don't mind. ;-)
I suppose it's possible they're just yanking my chain, but I believe they're sincere.
I have suggested Lvn S StP-Mos, Gal S Mos-Ukr.
Unfortunately, this means that I need both Mun and Ber this season in order to win.
I suppose I could leave one of them until next year, but I'm not confident that I'd
be able to hold Mos all that time.
So if it's OK with you, I'd like to do Boh S Ruh-Mun, Kie-Ber. You can also do Sil
S Gal (or Sil S War or Sil-Gal if you fear an attack on War) and either War S StP-Mos
or War S Sil-Gal. How do you feel about this?
If all goes according to plan, I win and you survive with War with AG are eliminated.
I guess there's a risk that AG will instead conspire to take War and you'll be eliminated,
but if they deny me the win I can guarantee you that I'll do whatever it takes to make
sure they're eliminated, even if I have to get Raine to do it for me. But hopefully
it won't come to that. :-)
Rod
From - Wed Mar 06 19:51:56 2002
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Austria in
'gutsy':
> I will order Mos-Sev and Gal-Ukr.
Sounds good.
> Be careful with Russia, he might balk at the last minute.
Yeah, I know. I plan to force Ber, but I can't guarantee Mun without his help.
(Bur must support Mar.) I think he realizes that he'll just be squeezed out of a
two-way if he doesn't play along, so hopefully he'll cooperate.
Rod
From - Thu Mar 07 17:22:42 2002
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to France in 'gutsy':
> Austria and Germany both now claim that Italy has pissed them
> off enough that they want me to win. I guess it would be more
> accurate to say that they just want Raine to lose, but I don't mind.
That's good.
> I suppose it's possible they're just yanking my chain, but I
> believe they're sincere. I have suggested Lvn S StP-Mos,
> Gal S Mos-Ukr.
Looks like a reasonable plan.
> Unfortunately, this means that I need both Mun and Ber this season
> in order to win. I suppose I could leave one of them until next
> year, but I'm not confident that I'd be able to hold Mos all that time.
Eighteen centers by the end of the year. Sounds very good to me.
> So if it's OK with you, I'd like to do Boh S Ruh-Mun, Kie-Ber.
It's fine by me.
> You can also do Sil S Gal (or Sil S War or Sil-Gal if you fear
> an attack on War) and either War S StP-Mos or War S Sil-Gal.
> How do you feel about this?
I think if the three minor powers are all going to help France
get a solo then it'd be more fun if we all supported you into
Mos on the last move.
> If all goes according to plan, I win and you survive with War
> with AG are eliminated. I guess there's a risk that AG will
> instead conspire to take War and you'll be eliminated, but if
> they deny me the win I can guarantee you that I'll do whatever it
> takes to make sure they're eliminated, even if I have to get Raine
> to do it for me. But hopefully it won't come to that. :-)
Well, if I cut Gal's support and you're cutting Mos's support
then the only way they can get War is if they let you into Mos,
Crossing the stalemate line. Probably worth the risk.
Moves Entered:
A Boh S A Ruh - Mun
A Was S A Stp - Mos
A Sil - Gal
Adam.............
From - Thu Mar 07 17:22:51 2002
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia in
'gutsy':
Adam,
> > I have suggested Lvn S StP-Mos,
> > Gal S Mos-Ukr.
>
> Looks like a reasonable plan.
FYI, Austria suggested Mos-Sev, Gal-Ukr, and I agreed.
> Eighteen centers by the end of the year. Sounds very good to me.
I'm glad you approve. :-)
> I think if the three minor powers are all going to help France
> get a solo then it'd be more fun if we all supported you into
> Mos on the last move.
If that sends Raine the message you want to get across, go for it! ;-)
> A Boh S A Ruh - Mun
> A War S A Stp - Mos
> A Sil - Gal
Sounds good. Thanks!
Rod
From - Thu Mar 07 17:22:52 2002
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany,
Austria and Russia in 'gutsy':
Gentlemen,
It sounds like we are all in agreement. I will move StP-Mos and take Mun/Ber for 18.
Thanks for your help!
Rod
From - Thu Mar 07 17:22:57 2002
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Italy in
'gutsy':
Raine,
If I can't win in the next couple of years, I'll probably never be able to. When we
get to that point, I'll pull back to a minimal position so you can secure your side
of the line.
Rod
From - Thu Mar 07 17:22:58 2002
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
I know, I didn't move like you wanted. I'd still like to ask if you are
willing to try to prevent French solo? We still have a shot for draw.
I know that France is going to do everything he can to get a solo. So, if
I don't want to lose I need to get some (hopefully two) of AGR to prevent
solo. I believe that you are in good terms with G. Is it possible to
coordinate GAI moves so that we could prevent F solo? I don't care if it
means 4way or 3way draw. I believe that solos should not exist in
diplomacy 'cause it should always be possible to prevent it.
Raine
From - Thu Mar 07 17:22:59 2002
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria and Germany in
'gutsy':
Hi Keith & Tim,
I am willing to make coordinated moves to prevent French solo. Are you
willing to try for it? It is my believe that Russia has chosen his path to
play the kingmaker. It leaves us to prevent French solo. I am willing to
try for it. Let me know if you are with me.
Raine
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:00 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
I wasn't bluffing. France wins. I don't know what you were thinking.
Austria
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:02 2002
Message from tim at 9oakhill.com as Germany to Austria and Italy in 'gutsy':
Raine,
>I am willing to make coordinated moves to prevent French solo. Are you
>willing to try for it? It is my believe that Russia has chosen his path to
>play the kingmaker. It leaves us to prevent French solo. I am willing to
>try for it. Let me know if you are with me.
Did Keith not warn you that this would be happening? You not moving to UKR
last turn in the face of it is unexplainable (though feel free to give it a
shot, I'd love to hear what you were thinking). How do you even propose to
keep me alive now? It's too late for you to be looking for my
help. France has my support for a solo.
Tim
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:05 2002
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
> I wasn't bluffing. France wins. I don't know what you were thinking.
>
> Austria
What was your talk about surviving longer than Russia? Where you still
thinking about draw or what? I mean, I don't get it, I was making it sure
that you'll live longer than Russia. Then suddenly you get mad...
But if France wins that's ok. He has played a great game.
Raine
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:09 2002
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Germany and Austria in
'gutsy':
Hi Tim,
> Did Keith not warn you that this would be happening? You not moving to UKR
> last turn in the face of it is unexplainable (though feel free to give it a
> shot, I'd love to hear what you were thinking). How do you even propose to
> keep me alive now? It's too late for you to be looking for my
> help. France has my support for a solo.
It wasn't just moving to Ukr. There was a lot more in there an enormous
retreat with almost all my units in east.
Before that Keith told me a long ago that his goal is to survive longer than
Russia. Then out of the blue he makes demands that I couldn't understand
(if his goal was to survive longer than Russia). But ok, I got the point
France will win and that's it. Rod has played a good game and he deserves
it.
I hate to lose. Especially when there is possibility to not lose. Anyway
it has been an interesting experience to play with good players.
Raine
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:11 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
> What was your talk about surviving longer than Russia? Where you still
> thinking about draw or what? I mean, I don't get it, I was making it sure
> that you'll live longer than Russia. Then suddenly you get mad...
Perhaps my getting mad had something to do with your taking Rumania and
Budapest from me. You didn't even have enough room to build, and you
forced me to disband. France would not have eliminated Russia until he
knew he would win, i.e. this turn.
Austria
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:12 2002
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
> Perhaps my getting mad had something to do with your taking Rumania and
> Budapest from me. You didn't even have enough room to build, and you
> forced me to disband. France would not have eliminated Russia until he
> knew he would win, i.e. this turn.
I didn't have room to build because Russia dislodged me and I had to
retreat to my home center.
I am not sure if I am wasting my time but anyway I try. I believe French
solo can be blocked and we can be included in a draw. I am willing to
almost anything to prevent France from winning. Last time you proposal was
too much, I mean I don't want to make myself to look like more fool than I
already am.
My motivation to take Rumania and Budabest:
-I really thought that you had lost your interest
-I was counting on 3way to come with IF and either you or Russia
It is obvious that I am too unexperienced to read between the lines. I
should have known that you are more ambitious than I expected. I will
remember this in future.
If you are still willing to try for preventing F solo I am with you. Name
the price. If not then we can start to analyze what went wrong and
congratulate France.
Italy
From - Thu Mar 07 17:23:16 2002
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
There is no way out now. France has to win. Your moves last Fall put
things into motion that could only have been rectified by the moves I
requested from you this Spring. I told you if you did not makes those
moves, I would throw the game to France. I have not lied to you the
entire game. Why would I start now?
You had a chance for an easy three-way, or better, when France and Russia
began attacking Austria. Instead, you attacked me for some reason, even
after I had made countless sacrifices in order to prop you up against
France.
I certainly don't want to lose, and I don't want France to win. Perhaps
he was better at manipulating you and Russia. But even less do I want to
see you profit from attacking me. It is easy to attack people. It is
more difficult to attack the right people at the right time. Your
attacking me when you did made the French solo extremely likely, and you
cemented it with your moves in the last two turns.
You had quite an influence on this game, and certainly a large influence
on the outcome. I feel like I gave you plenty of warnings that were not
heeded.
Austria
From - Fri Mar 08 05:21:40 2002
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
> There is no way out now. France has to win. Your moves last Fall put
> things into motion that could only have been rectified by the moves I
> requested from you this Spring. I told you if you did not makes those
> moves, I would throw the game to France. I have not lied to you the
> entire game. Why would I start now?
I don't say that you have lied in this game. There is still a
contradiction in your behaviour. By throwing the game to France now you'll
live as long as Russia. Still, you said your goal is to live longer than
Russia.
Well, I am still a newbie in partial press games. This is my 4th game with
partial press. I can see that I have fallen in a endgame dream and I know
now that in endgame there has to be as much diploming as in opening and in
the midgame.
> You had a chance for an easy three-way, or better, when France and Russia
> began attacking Austria. Instead, you attacked me for some reason, even
> after I had made countless sacrifices in order to prop you up against
> France.
Easy 3way was FRI. I wanted you to be in three way instead of Russia. I
told you this several times. I guessed I could pick up the 3rd power to
3way when we would have beem close to it (you were my #1 choise but you
talked of 3way as impossible, then I wanted to help you to get the chance
to be in 3way).
> I certainly don't want to lose, and I don't want France to win. Perhaps
> he was better at manipulating you and Russia. But even less do I want to
> see you profit from attacking me. It is easy to attack people. It is
> more difficult to attack the right people at the right time. Your
> attacking me when you did made the French solo extremely likely, and you
> cemented it with your moves in the last two turns.
I am happy to hear that you don't want to lose and don't want France to
win. I feel so too. I am willing to make whatever moves you want me to
make in order to prevent F solo.
If there is a FIA 3way then I won't profit from attacking you, right?
Like I said, I am willing to go for it. I should have made it more clear
that I am the newcomer in gutsy the most unexperienced partial press
player. I did make noise about english being not my native language but I
should have told it also that I am the newbie in this group.
> You had quite an influence on this game, and certainly a large influence
> on the outcome. I feel like I gave you plenty of warnings that were not
> heeded.
I feel like I had a warning but certainly not plenty of warnings. I feel
also stupid in a way if I see that people are not going to try for
surviving when there is a chance.
Italy
From - Sat Mar 09 07:24:19 2002
The game was won by France.
Congratulations on a well deserved victory!
From - Sat Mar 09 07:24:25 2002
:: Judge: NZMB Game: Gutsy Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: F1913M Sat Mar 09 2002 20:00:00 +1300
Movement results for Fall of 1913. (gutsy.053)
Austria: Army Moscow -> Sevastopol. (*bounce, dislodged*)
Austria: Army Galicia -> Ukraine. (*bounce*)
France: Army Marseilles SUPPORT Fleet Portugal -> Spain (south coast). (*cut*)
France: Army St Petersburg -> Moscow.
France: Fleet Barents Sea -> St Petersburg (north coast).
France: Army Holland -> Kiel.
France: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT Army Kiel -> Berlin.
France: Fleet Sweden HOLD.
France: Army Kiel -> Berlin.
France: Fleet Norway SUPPORT Fleet Barents Sea -> St Petersburg (north coast).
France: Army Ruhr -> Munich.
France: Fleet Portugal -> Spain (south coast).
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Portugal -> Spain (south coast). (*cut*)
France: Army Gascony SUPPORT Fleet Portugal -> Spain (south coast).
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Marseilles.
France: Fleet English Channel SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
Germany: Army Livonia SUPPORT French Army St Petersburg -> Moscow.
Italy: Army Rumania -> Ukraine. (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Tyrolia -> Vienna.
Italy: Fleet Black Sea -> Rumania. (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Western Mediterranean -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean. (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Gulf of Lyon SUPPORT Army Piedmont -> Marseilles.
Italy: Army Tyrolia -> Vienna.
Italy: Fleet North Africa SUPPORT Fleet Western Mediterranean -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea -> Western Mediterranean. (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Austrian Army Moscow. (*void*)
Italy: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Venice -> Tyrolia.
Italy: Army Piedmont -> Marseilles. (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Venice -> Tyrolia.
Italy: Army Rome -> Venice.
Russia: Army Silesia -> Galicia. (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Bohemia SUPPORT French Army Ruhr -> Munich.
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT French Army St Petersburg -> Moscow.
The following units were dislodged:
The Austrian Army in Moscow with no valid retreats was destroyed.
Ownership of supply centers:
France: Belgium, Berlin, Brest, Denmark, Edinburgh, Holland, Kiel,
Liverpool, London, Marseilles, Moscow, Munich, Norway, Paris,
Portugal, Spain, St Petersburg, Sweden.
Italy: Ankara, Budapest, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Naples, Rome,
Rumania, Serbia, Sevastopol, Smyrna, Trieste, Tunis, Venice,
Vienna.
Russia: Warsaw.
Austria: 0 Supply centers, 1 Unit: Removes 1 unit.
England: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 18 Supply centers, 14 Units: Builds 4 units. (* VICTORY!! *)
Germany: 0 Supply centers, 1 Unit: Removes 1 unit.
Italy: 15 Supply centers, 13 Units: Builds 2 units.
Russia: 1 Supply center, 3 Units: Removes 2 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
The game is over. Thank you for playing.
