Fall 1906
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From - Wed Nov 21 17:02:23 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to France in 'gutsy':
> Keith is trying to convince me that you and I should
> attack Germany before Steve stabs us. Of course, that
> would nicely let the pressure off Austria. He's claiming
> that Steve will move to Nwy, War, and Nth this turn, but
> I think that if he really believed that then he would not
> feel such a need to persuade us to turn against him.
> What do you think?
I think Steve is still a little irrationally afraid of
Austria to be honest. I'm sure he'll take Norway, since
that's what he said he'd do, but I think War is safe, for
now at least.
As to whether or not we should attack Germany. I can see
some point in it, but it's not going to be that easy.
I think the best line to take would be that you're prepared
to do so, but only using new builds from growth in Italy
which Keith is in a position to give to you. You can't
easily back off from Italy right now and you just don't
have enough units in mainland France to start attacking
Germany until you make some gain there. This is the best
line to take mostly because it's true!
That's roughly what I've been saying to Keith too, that
I'm prepared to side with him against Steve, but first
I need my home SC's back, plus one other. I've been
pushing for Rumania but I think that I'll propose
that I can accept Bul, if he wants to support me in
place. If we get a weakened Italy in the bargin, then
it makes it more worth us thinking about attacking
Steve anyway.
Adam............
From - Wed Nov 21 17:02:28 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
>That turn worked pretty much as I had expected. What do you think?
We're certainly most of the way toward getting those 1906
goals I mentioned done with, which is probably pretty good
news. The advance of Italy further towards me is a worry,
and you have much hold over him since you are propping him
up against France. I'll probably have to insist you either
withdraw your support from him or convince him to stop
attacking me.
Though I'm sure he's lying, he said that once my fleet was
destroyed he'd attack you. I decided to let him destroy it
manually rather than give him an extra move to play with
(as you see from my retreat to Bul).
>You will be able to take Sev but not Rum (or at least not both of them),
>which is what I predicted. I am happy with this. I hope you are. I
>should be able to get a build. I think your fleet will be destroyed. If
>Germany does not stab you, you should be able to get two builds.
I was hoping we could get Rum for me as well as Sev, but I think
that I can probably accept Bul instead if you think it's time
to withdraw your support of Italy. I think this will be for
the best also since it will give France the chance he needs
to get some new units to use in Germany.
Germany probably won't stab, but he will take Norway. This is
hardly a stab as such since he's insisted all along that he
will take it back when the time is right. I will therefore
lose a unit unless I can keep Bul or get Rum.
>But, my instincts tell me that Germany is going to stab you this turn.
>His moves are going to be something like this: Mun-Tyr, Boh S Mun-Tyr,
>Gal-War, Ska-Nwy, Swe S Ska-Nwy, Den-Nth. He may be telling you that he
>will take Norway. The stab is that he will take Warsaw as well.
The move to Nth doesn't make much sense, I wouldn't have thought
he'd want to stab France and me at the same time. I think we
probably have another year to sort out our differences
before Germany starts to come after me personally.
>Why would Germany do this? There are a number of reasons. One, he does
>not want you to get any builds.
If he takes Norway I won't be getting any, indeed I'll have
one unit less than last year. I'd be able to rebuilt F Bul
which is about to be destroyed, but that's all.
>If you build two armies, it would be
>almost impossible for him to attack you further. (And if he does take
>Norway, a good move on your part would be to disband the fleet and
>rebuild armies--even if he took Stp with a fleet, it would be no great
>threat to you.)
I'll keep it in mind, you may be right that an army would be
more useful.
>Second, he has Austria under control. He will have armies in Tyrolia,
>Bohemia, and he will be able to build more. There is no way that I can
>break through that line for quite some time. He has a good defense set
>up, and his offense can go through you (Russia) to attack me from that
>flank fairly easily.
>
>In short, you have served your purpose to Germany.
Could be, but I think you're underestimating his
irrational fear of you. He'll want you at less
than five centers before he'd be ready to move
as you suggest I think.
>I understand that you trust Germany much more than you trust me right
>now, but look at who is in the position to hurt you most. And what can
>Germany give you that he has not given you already? The Austrian centers
>and Rumania will be impenetrable against any assult from the German and
>Russian units. If you take Rum with your Bul fleet this turn, you won't
>also be able to take Sev, and this will hold true for the future as well
>(you can have one of Sev or Rum but not both).
I don't see how you can say that Germany would be able to
go through Russia and hit your flank and yet Russia would
be unable to do this with German help. There seems to be
some inconsistancy there. Surely it would be easier for
Russia to do so with German help becasue of the proximity
of home centers than for Germany to kill Russia and do the
same thing alone?
>I can freely give you my moves this turn, because there nothing you can do
>about them. I will move Sev-Rum, Ser S Sev-Rum, Tyr-Vie, Bud S Tyr-Vie.
Which would certainly let Germany into Tyr and build in Mun.
It would let me into Sev too. Italy will no doubt pop the Bul
fleet and move Ank - Sev. He'll have an army in Bul, which
is dangerous for you, and two units on Sev which is dangerous
for me.
I think that you could easily get me and France on your
side if you'd only stop supporting Italy to be honest.
> I have been talking with France. He is unwilling to move against Germany
> unless we make the first move. He has enough units to defend against
> Italy for now, and he could move Mid-Eng. He doesn't want to do this
> because he is afraid that he will bear the brunt of Germany's attack.
> However, if he sees that you and I are united against Germany, it will
> put his fears at ease.
He still wouldn't have enough units to risk doing anything
if you ask me. The only way I could see france moving against
Germany would be if Germany attacked first, or if he started
to make gains in Italy. The first gives him an excuse to give
Italy to make withdrawal possible, the second gives him the
extra units to use in the fight.
> Now, I cannot attack Italy while you and Germany are breathing down my
> neck. I feel like I am in a noose. However, if you and I can settle our
> differences this turn, which I think will happen whether we intend to or
> not, because I think that my moves will see to it that we are disentangled.
Does this mean you CAN attack Italy once we are seperated? If
so does it mean you can support my F Bul this fall and get that
attack underway immediately? If that's the case then I think
we can come to an immediate agreement most likely.
> The sooner we make moves against Germany, the sooner France can consider
> joining. I woul dlike to evict Germany from Galacia as I mentioned, and
> to do that I would like to have my move from Sev-Rum succeed. I would
> also like to see you make sure that Germany does not take Warsaw from
> you.
I still don't think he'll even try, but I guess I could
cover War if we come to agreement and also agree what
a unit there is better than a build there.
> If Germany does take Warsaw (he tells me he is not planning to this year,
> but this doesn't mean anything since I would not advertise my stab of
> someone either), all bets are off, because I don't think Russia would be
> viable after that.
Probably true. My worry is that Italy has obviously decided he
also can't wait around and he's heading into the battle around
Bla. I think it's in both our interests to stop that and if
you will support me in Bul then I'll bounce Germany in War.
> p.s. Let Germany dislodge you from Norway (or even better, move Nwy-Nth to
> bounce him) so that you can choose your retreat or disband based on what
> moves Germany does. If he takes Warsaw you might want to disband it or
> else retreat to Nwg to help France.
Nwy - Nth would make a lot of sense if we can agree what
to do about Italy. I had asked for Rum as a condition of
our co-operation. I'll accept Bul.
Adam.........
From - Wed Nov 21 17:02:43 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
> We're certainly most of the way toward getting those 1906
> goals I mentioned done with, which is probably pretty good
> news. The advance of Italy further towards me is a worry,
> and you have much hold over him since you are propping him
> up against France. I'll probably have to insist you either
> withdraw your support from him or convince him to stop
> attacking me.
Once the pressure that you and Germany are applying to me is withdrawn,
then I see no reason to support Italy any further. However, right now,
with you and Germany apparently hostile to me, my alliance with Italy is
essential to my survival. You can't expect me to make enemies of *all*
of my neighbors, can you?
> I was hoping we could get Rum for me as well as Sev, but I think
> that I can probably accept Bul instead if you think it's time
> to withdraw your support of Italy. I think this will be for
> the best also since it will give France the chance he needs
> to get some new units to use in Germany.
I am willing to withdraw my support of Italy, but only when I am at a
sufficient level of security to do so, which is not right now.
> Germany probably won't stab, but he will take Norway. This is
> hardly a stab as such since he's insisted all along that he
> will take it back when the time is right. I will therefore
> lose a unit unless I can keep Bul or get Rum.
Why is the time right now for Germany to take Norway? If Germany is an
ally to you, then he should see that you really need to get a build in
order to survive. Whereas Germany does not need any builds. I don't see
any reason why Germany should need a build more than you do. What is his
reasoning?
> The move to Nth doesn't make much sense, I wouldn't have thought
> he'd want to stab France and me at the same time. I think we
> probably have another year to sort out our differences
> before Germany starts to come after me personally.
It is essential for Germany that you do not retreat Nwy-Nth. If you
enter the North Sea, he will have a difficult time with you. This is why
it is a good idea for you to move Nwy-Nth. If you do make it into Nth,
you can make it less likely that he will stab you, because of the damage
you can do to him. Plus, if he does stab you this turn, then Nwy-Nth
will provide some ammunition against him. It is a win-win situation.
> If he takes Norway I won't be getting any, indeed I'll have
> one unit less than last year. I'd be able to rebuilt F Bul
> which is about to be destroyed, but that's all.
You could disband F Nwy to get two builds. Germany does not want you to
get two army builds. Even one build and keeping your fleet presents some
difficulty for Germany if you and I ally. If Germany takes Norway and
Warsaw, though, you are toast even if I rush to try to help you.
> Could be, but I think you're underestimating his
> irrational fear of you. He'll want you at less
> than five centers before he'd be ready to move
> as you suggest I think.
That irrational fear you keep mentioning is simply a ploy that Germany is
using against you. His fears are baseless, and I don't recall having
played in another game with him. He is building this up so that you will
lower your guard against him. It is working. When he stabs you, you
will be eliminated quickly.
> I don't see how you can say that Germany would be able to
> go through Russia and hit your flank and yet Russia would
> be unable to do this with German help. There seems to be
> some inconsistancy there. Surely it would be easier for
> Russia to do so with German help becasue of the proximity
> of home centers than for Germany to kill Russia and do the
> same thing alone?
I don't think that your units add to the German ones to do anything that
Germany cannot do alone. Look at the units you have. Germany could
replace them with his own in a turn or two if he takes Warsaw. He might
encounter some difficulty taking Sev, but he can take and hold War, Mos,
Stp easily enough, all while keeping pressure on me, I think.
> >I can freely give you my moves this turn, because there nothing you can do
> >about them. I will move Sev-Rum, Ser S Sev-Rum, Tyr-Vie, Bud S Tyr-Vie.
>
> Which would certainly let Germany into Tyr and build in Mun.
> It would let me into Sev too.
Yes, well I can't prevent Germany from taking Tyrolia (he can get French
help), and I can't prevent your taking Sev, so I will move to keep what I
can. If Germany does get into Tyr, he still won't be able to take
Vienna. I can support it with Tri (to be build this year) and Bud.
Hopefully Sev-Rum will succeed, and I can support Rum with Ser and an
Italian unit.
> Italy will no doubt pop the Bul
> fleet and move Ank - Sev. He'll have an army in Bul, which
> is dangerous for you, and two units on Sev which is dangerous
> for me.
I am hoping that Italy will take Bul with a fleet.
> I think that you could easily get me and France on your
> side if you'd only stop supporting Italy to be honest.
Right now the damage that Italy can do to me is greater than the damage
that you and Germany can do to me. Once this ceases to be the case, then
you can bet that I will choose the appropriate target.
> > Now, I cannot attack Italy while you and Germany are breathing down my
> > neck. I feel like I am in a noose. However, if you and I can settle our
> > differences this turn, which I think will happen whether we intend to or
> > not, because I think that my moves will see to it that we are disentangled.
>
> Does this mean you CAN attack Italy once we are seperated? If
> so does it mean you can support my F Bul this fall and get that
> attack underway immediately? If that's the case then I think
> we can come to an immediate agreement most likely.
Yes, I will be capable of attacking Italy if you are not attacking me.
Since as far as I can tell you are still attacking me, I simply cannot
attack Italy this year. I have to look at actions and not words, and you
have made no peaceful actions towards me since you decided to attack me
instead of Germany.
> Probably true. My worry is that Italy has obviously decided he
> also can't wait around and he's heading into the battle around
> Bla. I think it's in both our interests to stop that and if
> you will support me in Bul then I'll bounce Germany in War.
I simply cannot afford the possibility that I will be suckererd. I
cannot attack Italy and have three enemies. If I attack Italy, I will be
crushed between Germany and Italy, I'm quite certain of it.
Italy is a problem for you that will go away if I find myself some
flexibility to move. Plus, if I am going to attack Italy, it is going to
have to be an attack that nets me a quick supply center. For instance, I
can take Bul myself next year and let France take Tunis. Italy will be
forced to withdraw his units from attacking Sevastopol, and we will all
be happy.
Austria
From - Thu Nov 22 11:55:05 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
> Why is the time right now for Germany to take Norway?
I don't really know, he's been very quiet for a while now,
blaming work for not writing much press. We haven't even
mentioned Norway in a while, it's possible he'll let me
keep it if I ask I guess. I'll do just that.
> That irrational fear you keep mentioning is simply a ploy that Germany is
> using against you. His fears are baseless, and I don't recall having
> played in another game with him. He is building this up so that you will
> lower your guard against him. It is working. When he stabs you, you
> will be eliminated quickly.
He's been warning me against you since S1901, I think he
observed a game you were in, or checked out your history
somehow. If it was a pose of some kind, why did he choose
you to warn me about rather than Turkey or England? I
guess geography is the answer, but his warnings and fear
have been very consistant.
> I don't think that your units add to the German ones to do anything that
> Germany cannot do alone. Look at the units you have. Germany could
> replace them with his own in a turn or two if he takes Warsaw. He might
> encounter some difficulty taking Sev, but he can take and hold War, Mos,
> Stp easily enough, all while keeping pressure on me, I think.
But you have said that I'd make no progress against you either,
so how would Germany turning all my units German suddenly mean
he could make progress against you?
> I am hoping that Italy will take Bul with a fleet.
I can't see why he would, I'm sure that if he's interested
in staying your friend then he can see Sev is his best hope,
and F Bla, F Arm would be the best way to get that. He
might convoy that army back out and into Sev if he can,
or he might be more under your thumb than I thought.
> Yes, I will be capable of attacking Italy if you are not attacking me.
> Since as far as I can tell you are still attacking me, I simply cannot
> attack Italy this year. I have to look at actions and not words, and you
> have made no peaceful actions towards me since you decided to attack me
> instead of Germany.
We have had this problem a lot, and of course it goes both ways,
we've both been talking about peace but moving our units for
war. If I move Ukr to War then you can just hang around in Sev
just as much as if you support Bul you risk Italy doing you
harm. I don't know how we can solve this problem unless we
can both take the leap of faith in the same phase.
> I simply cannot afford the possibility that I will be suckererd.
Do you think I can? By my count you have more SC's than I do,
even if Germany doesn't take Norway.
Adam...........
From - Thu Nov 22 11:55:07 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Germany and France in 'gutsy':
I think that our best moves will be pretty much the same as
the ones which best fight against Austria's proposed moves.
Ukr S Mos - Sev; Bul - Bla; for my units and
Germany taking Tyr with force two. Gal could try for
Vie or Rum, but I think a bounce is the best it would
get either way, Austria is right that he can tell us
his moves, they're the best he can hope for.
So, if Germany leaves me Norway to use the unit in
the south then I can build A War and A Mos, if he
takes Norway then just A War. Either way I'll be
back pretty much exactly where I started in 1901!
Adam.........
From - Thu Nov 22 13:10:18 2001
Message from rkarjala at mail.student.oulu.fi as Italy to Austria in 'gutsy':
Hi Keith,
I am under enormous amount of work... I start my trip to US after 48
hours. I have a lot of work to do before that :-| So, please forgive me my
lack of press lately.
Russia has answered my mail but I haven't heard from France or Germany for
a very long time.
Do you still want me to go to Bul with a fleet? I'll do it if you want it.
I understand the safety reasons. On the other hand we need each other (at
least I need you if you do not help me from Ion I am dead quite soon) so
there shouldn't be worries of stab.
I'd like to move:
Bla S Con-Bul (I'll move Bla-Bul(ec) if you insist)
Con-Bul
Ank-Arm
Then I might move in the next season Bul-Bla-Sev with support from Arm if
it looks like a good idea. But like I said I'll move to Bul with fleet if
you want me to.
Ven is ready to help you if you want. I guess you'll support yourself to
Vie? So I can basically concentrate on France. You should get build from
getting Bud back (from destroyed unit in fact).
I'd like to receive your support to Tun hold. Just saying the obvious.
Raine
From - Sat Nov 24 15:12:17 2001
Broadcast message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France in
'gutsy':
> Diplomacy game 'gutsy' is waiting for France's orders.
Sorry, I got lazy. My orders are now in.
Rod
From - Sat Nov 24 15:12:18 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia and
Germany in 'gutsy':
> Ukr S Mos - Sev; Bul - Bla; for my units and
> Germany taking Tyr with force two.
Sounds good to me.
I've entered Pie S Mun-Tyl and a token attack in the south. Everything
else holds.
Rod
From - Sat Nov 24 20:16:56 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia in
'gutsy':
Adam,
> I'm sure he'll take Norway, since
> that's what he said he'd do, but I think War is safe, for
> now at least.
He mentioned to me that he *might* let you keep Nwy, but of course I
don't know what he'll actually do. I think you're right that War is
safe - he must realize that if he does take it then everyone else will
turn against him.
> As to whether or not we should attack Germany.
> I think the best line to take would be that you're prepared
> to do so, but only....
I agree completely with your thinking on this.
Rod
From - Sat Nov 24 20:16:57 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
It seems Keith is trying to break up FGR. I think our best plan is to
stay the course for now, though we might have to consider other options
in the future.
Rod
From - Sun Nov 25 18:12:08 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi, I was away for the Thanksgiving holiday here.
Yes, please take Bulgaria with a fleet. I think this is important for
our alliance. Right now, we both have bigger things to worry about than
each other, but even small temptations like this could cause us problems
in the future. If we don't have any in herent friction, I think we can
both go in opposite directions without having to worry about our backs.
I am supporting Tunis with F Ion.
Austria
From - Sun Nov 25 18:12:10 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi, I was looking at the map. I think you will still be able to get Sev
next Fall (and I think it is important for you to do so in order to build
against France if he forces his way into Tuscany). I'd still like you to
atake Bul with a fleet, although it will slow things down by one turn so
that you will get Sev in the Fall. Is that okay?
Austria
From - Sun Nov 25 18:12:12 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
> But you have said that I'd make no progress against you either,
> so how would Germany turning all my units German suddenly mean
> he could make progress against you?
I think that you and Germany's unit together, or if all of your units
were German units, could not break through to get the Austrian centers.
However, I think that a single enemy in Germany controlling all of your
centers is more dangerous than there being two independent countries
(Germany and Russia) with different leaders.
I don't think this game is going to end in a 4-way draw. If Germany takes
all of your centers, then he will at least be one of the participants in
any draw. Hw will have a lot of resarouces, and I don't think there is
any way that France and I would be able to crush him. I think that
Austria would be crushed between Germany and Italy instead. If you stay
alive, we both have a better chance at not being eliminated in this game.
> I can't see why he would, I'm sure that if he's interested
> in staying your friend then he can see Sev is his best hope,
> and F Bla, F Arm would be the best way to get that. He
> might convoy that army back out and into Sev if he can,
> or he might be more under your thumb than I thought.
I don't know if Italy will do it or not. I've asked him to nonetheless.
> We have had this problem a lot, and of course it goes both ways,
> we've both been talking about peace but moving our units for
> war. If I move Ukr to War then you can just hang around in Sev
> just as much as if you support Bul you risk Italy doing you
> harm. I don't know how we can solve this problem unless we
> can both take the leap of faith in the same phase.
I am going to move Sev-Rum this turn, with support. You can choose to
move how you wish. I think your best bet is to defend against Germany,
but it you are still worried about me, then by all means support yourself
to Sev. I think you will see soon, if not this very turn, that Germany
is the one who is going to knock you out of this game, not me.
Austria
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:47 2001
Broadcast message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany in 'gutsy':
I just got back from a very long and very nice Thanksgiving weekend with
family. I hope the American players had a good T'day weekend and I hope the
European players had a good weekend away from dip. :)
I've caught up on everyone's press and will respond shortly. My apologies
to all for delaying the game.
Thanks.
- Steve
P.S. Sorry about that, Roger. I thought the deadline was Tuesday. My bad;
won't happen again.
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:48 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi Adam,
I've lost track of exactly where we are with our negotiations, but I wanted
to let you know that I'm still committed to attacking Austria. Despite what
Keith has written, I have no problem with you keeping Norway and I most
certainly won't attack Warsaw this fall.
Order-wise, mos - sev with support from the Ukraine and a tap from Bulgaria
makes sense to me. I'll attack Vienna and try for Tyrolia with Rod's
support; the rest of my units will hold.
Talk to you later; write when you can.
- Steve
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:50 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France in 'gutsy':
Hi Rod,
Right. Despite Keith's urging, I will hold to FGR as long as I can. War
and Nwy are mighty tempting, but the timing is not yet right.
The way I see it, Rod, is that it's only 1906; we really haven't seen our
gains yet. You have a couple of Italian centers to snag and I have a couple
of Austrian centers coming.
I see the value in AFG (that's a logical 3-way that might still pan out),
but I don't like the idea of giving Keith any leeway. For now unless I hit
a stonewall in Austria, I'll keep myself engaged.
Thanks for the support into Tyrolia BTW. My orders are pretty simple:
mun - tyr
boh - vie
gal s boh - vie
everyone else just sits and holds and is happy doing so :)
Thanks.
- Steve
P.S. I understand you wanting to keep MAO where it is. Have we talked
about a DMZ in the channel? I forget, but it's not a big deal. We can't
stab each other and AI is on the run, so I think whatever we're doing is
working pretty well.
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:51 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to France and Russia in 'gutsy':
> Either way I'll be back pretty much exactly
> where I started in 1901!
As long as there's no repeat of 1902, I'm happy. :)
- Steve
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:52 2001
Message from scse at maine.rr.com as Germany to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi Raine,
It's been almost two weeks since your last letter to me. I'm sorry for not
writing sooner, but I didn't see much chance that you would attack Austria.
Now that Adam will lose his southern fleet we might have a bit more to
discuss.
I recognize that Rod is pressuring you from the west and that I'm not in a
position to attack him, but I'm very interested in talking more. Please
write if you can.
Thanks.
- Steve
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:54 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Germany in
'gutsy':
Steve,
> Right. Despite Keith's urging, I will hold to FGR as long as I can.
I think that's our best plan right now.
> The way I see it, Rod, is that it's only 1906; we really haven't seen our
> gains yet.
I concur.
> P.S. I understand you wanting to keep MAO where it is. Have we talked
> about a DMZ in the channel?
Yes, Eng and Nth are DMZ.
Rod
From - Mon Nov 26 17:56:56 2001
Broadcast message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia in 'gutsy':
Whoops, sorry everyone. Pretty intense weekend, didn't
think the deadline was until this week.
Adam............
From - Wed Nov 28 18:09:44 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Just checking in. France and Germany aren't communicating. I've heard
from Russia, but I doubt there will be much progress there. I think that
Germany is going to stab Russia.
Austria
From - Wed Nov 28 18:09:48 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
Hi, just checking in. Have you decided what to do? (You don't need to
tell me what you are going to do, because I am not going to alter my
plans in any case.)
I find it amusing that Germany keeps warning you about me. My units are
made out of the same stuff as yours or his. Here I am surrounded by the
two of you, and Germany is poised o take your supply centers. I have how
many units? And Germany is still telling you that I am a big threat?
Whatever.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the moves. If you don't trust me now,
you will trust me after the moves, because I will have done exactly what
I have said. I just hope that you're still viable after this turn, or we
have no hopes of pushing back Germany at all.
Austria
From - Wed Nov 28 18:09:49 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Italy in 'gutsy':
Hi, haven't heard from you (I assume you are away). I just wanted to let
you know that if you *really* want to take Bulgaria with an army, it is
fine with me. I would greatly prefer that you take it with a fleet, but
I don't want you to view this as something that will drive a wedge
between us. It is not a big deal, but I think it will strengthen our
security in the future.
Austria
From - Wed Nov 28 18:09:54 2001
:: Judge: NZMB Game: Gutsy Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: F1906M Wed Nov 28 2001 23:30:00 +1300
Movement results for Fall of 1906. (gutsy.024)
Austria: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Sevastopol -> Rumania.
Austria: Army Sevastopol -> Rumania.
Austria: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis.
Austria: Army Tyrolia -> Vienna. (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Budapest -> Galicia. (*bounce*)
France: Army Piedmont SUPPORT German Army Munich -> Tyrolia. (*cut*)
France: Army Edinburgh HOLD.
France: Fleet North Africa -> Tunis. (*bounce*)
France: Army London HOLD.
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Western Mediterranean.
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet North Africa -> Tunis.
France: Army Paris HOLD.
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon SUPPORT Army Piedmont.
Germany: Army Holland HOLD.
Germany: Army Munich -> Tyrolia. (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Sweden HOLD.
Germany: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Bohemia -> Vienna. (*cut*)
Germany: Fleet Skagerrak HOLD.
Germany: Fleet Denmark HOLD.
Germany: Army Bohemia -> Vienna. (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Constantinople -> Bulgaria.
Italy: Army Venice -> Piedmont. (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Ankara -> Armenia.
Italy: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Constantinople -> Bulgaria.
Italy: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea. (*cut*)
Italy: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Army Venice -> Piedmont.
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tunis.
Italy: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea.
Russia: Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) -> Black Sea. (*bounce, dislodged*)
Russia: Fleet Norway HOLD.
Russia: Army Moscow -> Sevastopol.
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Army Moscow -> Sevastopol.
The following units were dislodged:
The Russian Fleet in Bulgaria (east coast) with no valid retreats was
destroyed.
Ownership of supply centers:
Austria: Budapest, Greece, Rumania, Serbia, Trieste, Vienna.
France: Brest, Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal,
Spain.
Germany: Belgium, Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich, Sweden.
Italy: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Naples, Rome, Smyrna, Tunis,
Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Norway, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Warsaw.
Austria: 6 Supply centers, 5 Units: Builds 1 unit.
England: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 8 Supply centers, 8 Units: Builds 0 units.
Germany: 7 Supply centers, 7 Units: Builds 0 units.
Italy: 8 Supply centers, 8 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 5 Supply centers, 3 Units: Builds 2 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
The next phase of 'gutsy' will be Adjustments for Winter of 1906.
The deadline for orders will be Thu Nov 29 2001 22:32:49 +1300.
From - Wed Nov 28 18:10:01 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Germany and France in 'gutsy':
Well, we're going around in circles here, seem to basically
be back to square one to me - except now Italy has two
units on Sev as well. Anyone got any bright ideas? I
suppose A Mos and A war make most sense for the builds.
ADam........
From - Wed Nov 28 18:10:03 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Austria in 'gutsy':
You did manage to do exactly what you said you'd do,
but Italy has taken Bul with an army and now has two
on Sev, which is pretty much what I figured would happen.
Are there any moves I can make this spring which will
have you withdrawing your support from Italy in the fall
so that France can join an attack on Germany next year?
Adam............
From - Wed Nov 28 18:10:04 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to France in 'gutsy':
Sent a message asking Austria what I could do to get
him to withdraw from supporting Italy so the three of
us can go after Germany. I don't think us attacking
Austria/Italy is getting anywhere quickly, or even
slowly.
Adam.......
From - Wed Nov 28 18:10:05 2001
Message from pre at dalliance.net as Russia to Italy in 'gutsy':
The army in Bul looks fairly anti-Austrian, but the
fleet in Arm isn't very nice. I'm getting distinctly
mixed signals here.
Adam........
From - Wed Nov 28 18:10:19 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia in
'gutsy':
Adam,
> Sent a message asking Austria what I could do to get
> him to withdraw from supporting Italy so the three of
> us can go after Germany.
That's a good idea, though it seems Keith is rather stubborn about wanting us to
make the first move. That might be a viable option if we thought we could trust
him, but I really have my doubts.
Rod
From - Wed Nov 28 18:10:21 2001
Message from rodspade at acm.org,rodney.spade at philips.com as France to Russia and
Germany in 'gutsy':
> except now Italy has two
> units on Sev as well. Anyone got any bright ideas?
Sev can be defended easily enough, but we won't make any progress in the east.
We can probably get Germany into Tyl, which may lead to a lucky break in Vie or Ven.
> I suppose A Mos and A war make most sense for the builds.
I agree.
Rod
From - Wed Nov 28 19:09:10 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Russia in 'gutsy':
> You did manage to do exactly what you said you'd do,
> but Italy has taken Bul with an army and now has two
> on Sev, which is pretty much what I figured would happen.
I don't know why Italy did that. He offered to take Bul with a fleet.
He changed his mind, I guess.
> Are there any moves I can make this spring which will
> have you withdrawing your support from Italy in the fall
> so that France can join an attack on Germany next year?
I was surprised to see that Germany did not attack you. I wonder what he
has in mind. I wonder what you have in mind.
Do you see that, if I support Rum with Ser and Bud, and support Vie with
Tri (let's say I move Tyr-Vie), then there is no way for you and Germany
to successfully attack me? This is what I was talking about last turn.
For me to attack Italy, you and Germany will have to fight. With your
builds, you should be strong enough to do some damage to Germany if you
want. I am willing to help. You will lose Germany as an ally, but you
will gain me, and I can take Italy's pressure away from you.
Let me know what your goals are.
Austria
From - Wed Nov 28 19:09:12 2001
Message from keith at alumni.caltech.edu as Austria to Germany in 'gutsy':
I thought for certain you would take War and Nwy from Russia. I don't
understand your strategy. You and Russia are stalled against me, and
France is stalled against Italy, though once you get into Tyrolia he may
make slow progress against Italy unless I give Italy another build.
Austria
From - Thu Nov 29 17:54:03 2001
:: Judge: NZMB Game: Gutsy Variant: Standard
:: Deadline: F1906B Thu Nov 29 2001 22:32:49 +1300
Adjustment orders for Winter of 1906. (gutsy.025)
Russia: Builds an army in Moscow.
Russia: Builds an army in Warsaw.
Austria: Builds an army in Trieste.
The next phase of 'gutsy' will be Movement for Spring of 1907.
The deadline for orders will be Tue Dec 04 2001 20:00:00 +1300.
